Not only male Iraqis... Sexual abuse and rape of women in detention

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Because there are still some people on these boards that doesn't understand that Bush and the war was wrong?

 

I understand what you say, Tal. However, I like AoDA -- just not these particular posts. And I don't think it's fair to tell Americans who are bothered by this sort of stuff to just stay away, and go visit other forums.

So....here's a thought: why not create a new forum called "Bush Bashing"? That way, it's very clear what it is and if anyone goes in that forum, they know specifically what they're in for. Might make people feel more comfortable.

 

Thanks! A new forum!! (One that I'll be sure to stay out of! )

 

I can't help noticing that the "honour killings" of raped Muslim women by their families is commented on as if it were somehow inevitable, a perfectly normal reaction, and less shocking than the rapes. And then the question is,

Uh...

Interesting priorities.

Yes, it's terrible that women in prisons get sexually assaulted by their guards, but it happens in prisons all over the world. Here is just one of many reports on the subject. It's nothing unique to American soldiers, nor even to military prison guards versus civilian ones. If you want to tackle the subject of prisoner abuse, terrific, it's a worthy subject. But treating that kind of abuse as if it's unique to occupied Iraq is pointlessly insulting both to the majority of American soldiers who don't do this sort of thing, and to the prisoners elsewhere who've had to endure this kind of behaviour.

 

That's not correct, historically. There have been many armies that have thought they have been serving their nation's interest, doing their leader's bidding or simply earning their pay. To some extent, it's typical to portray yourself as a saint and the enemy as the devil, but there have not been so many armies actually claiming to be fighting the axis of evil, leading the warror on terror, liberating the world from scum, bringing freedom and so on. I can think of a couple of uprisings, a host of crusades, several visionaries - including the commie menders of the world.

How about hearing all the time the largely uncontested lies that Poland is responsible for the Holocaust? That gargabe has made it into history books in some countries, giving our diplomats full hands of work.

That you stick by your country doesn't make it right to stand by it's every policy and endorse it as right and proper just because it's your country which executes it. What you seem to be missing is that there have been threads where I'm bitching about the Polish authorities and bashing them as hard as I do Dubya. In fact, whenever I mention the Polish government, politics or policies, it's either bitter irony or cynical bitching, in case you haven't noticed. And yes, if they did seem remotely responsible for cases of torture, humiliation and downright ridicule of international law of conflicts, I would be the first one to bring it up, as I've seen Americans criticise the criminal developments in Bush's squad.

You knew it was the Alley, you knew the Alley rules and you saw the title. If it bothers you so much, you can dismiss such topics as vain hate propaganda or a bunch of lies without reading them.

Until the news of torture stop coming up and until the US administration and army start respecting their obligations under the international law.

It does matter, but, as I said, topic titles are pretty much self-explanatory, so you can always skip them when you're reading the Alley. As Rally said on one day, "If it's in the AoDA and it is by chev, skip it." It seems to work for some people.

And, again, you must realise that critique of the government, army officials and other such, is not the same as slamming the country or the nation. I doubt you feel a connection with Bush and his underlings and anyone who similarly does not, should not feel slammed when said Bush and co are being criticised for what they do.

Whoever approves of what Bush's administration is doing with regard to the treatment of captives and civilians has every right to feel slammed, however. There are such people here and I don't feel sorry for their feelings being hurt.

That's a gross misinterpretation of what I said. The supposition of systematic rape is what you put in my mouth in opposition to what I said in a couple of places in this thread. The sources used are not exactly one or another gutter-paper and even your favourite Islam Online is quoting things from there.

I mentionned those in my post, especially in connection with real material. Allowing such incidents to happen and keeping them in secret, while letting the offenders escape unpunished or even continue offending with impunity, is simply asking for fakes to be made up to aggravate the situation.

Does it take a court sentence to make it something worthy of consideration instead of unsubstantiated propaganda as you dub it? Very well, so let's see the trials. Hmm?

Nice piece of cunning swordplay, but what you're missing is that such things don't just happen. They happen over and over and the lesson is not learnt. Shutting up and pretending nothing is going on is not a way to remove the problem.

It's not like each new incident adds to it, but each new type of incident surely does. Blaming me or anyone for discussing the news is more or less like blaming the press for printing it.

You have Dubya and his administration to thank for lying, covering tracks and creatively interpreting international laws as well as the Constitution of the United States. Without that, I doubt there would be nearly as much of a discussion of torture and international law violation.

Things would be different if crimes had been properly investigated and criminals properly tried and punished since the very beginning.

Yes, there still are such people and even today I had to reply to one, which was not exactly a pleasure.

It's not fair, either, to tell the people who are bother by that sort of stuff (torture, lying, intimidation policy, lack of regard for binding treaties and laws) to disregard a certain part of the world's news coverage, stop commenting and look in a different direction. What's more, while it could indeed be unfair (to some extent) to tell people to stay away from the AoDA, thread titles are quite self-explanatory and if you know that you aren't going to like what's inside and that you're not going to like it, perhaps you should give such threads a pass.

What you're missing is that honour killings are a different subject and one that is indeed brought up by people from time to time. It's heavily offensive to claim that I consider the killing of a raped woman by her family to be a normal reaction and it steps well beyond how any Americans, even those who voted for Bush, could be offended by my criticism of his policy.

The thread is not about sexual assaults in prisons, but about the torture in detention camps in the oh so noble war on terror and evil. If you believe there should be a topic on sexual abuse in prisons, I'll gladly participate.

How about civilian contractors? That's one. Another point is that we are actually discussing the evil done in Bush's war on evil, and not the worldwide aspects of sexual abuse in prisons.

http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/20/1124.html#000000

http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/20/1118.html#000000

Errr... please explain to me how stating that some American soldiers do that insults the rest of the soldiers, who don't do that?

By suggesting that they have less than perfect colleagues? Oh, please.

Now that's reach. I'm offending all remaining victims of sexual abuse in prison worldwide for talking about one specific series of it placed in specific circumstances. Brilliant.

 

My favourit part of this is how rape is downgraded to military police simply 'having sex with female prisoners'

How sickening. A similar things happened here to local women when the US set up Army bases in N.Ireland. We were not even the enemy at the time! The British/American government's did nothing to condemn anything since it was trivial as we were at war. Thanks for your support and your women!