Good News for Americans who Value Their Freedoms

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Gnarf,

Is also free speech.

some funny comments from Pat Morrison on the Huffington Post:

there's more, too The Huffington Post

 

Toilet paper with a flag on it would be just a little too tasteless...

What this ammendment wants to do is protect one line that should not be crossed. Freedom of speech is important, but if it is abused, then it could (needs to?) be curtailed.

 

I am sorry, but why is it a line not to be crossed?

The flag in itself isn't holy. The flag stands for an idea, and for an ideal.

When America stands for an idea, for an ideal, but doesn't reflect this idea and ideal in her politics, what then does the flag represent?

If America would turn into a dictatorship over night, would be flagburning then still be 'over the line'? Would that still be an 'abuse' of freedom of speech? Just a point.

Wether flagburning is good taste is indeed another question. Brain dead flag worshipping ain't all that much better, too.


However, from an aestheic point of view I find it quite sensible to outlaw bad taste. My proposal: 6 Months Style Education Camp (SEC) for Birkenstocks + white socks outside your home! Or for other horrors.
I find the option of jailing in half of Florida on the sound legal basis of having a really really bad taste quite striking.

 

I'd prefer to execute all of florida, but I could settle for imprisonment.

 

Symbolism is very real to the Religious folks out there. To many Christian faiths, the crucifix is a symbol of the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ on our behalf. To deface this symbol is a gross outrage to these people. Likewise, to the patriotic, the Flag is the symbol of the country they love. They would be just as angry if it were defaced in their presence. It is not the cloth and pattern, but what it represents. If you will not outlaw defacing it, then perhaps you ought to turn a blind eye to what mobs do to people that burn one...

 

Its quite a stretch to go from burning an inamimate object to letting a mob do whatever they want to a person dont ya think.As has already been pointed out I can buy napkins and an arrray of other things with the flag on it,I fail to see how blowing my nose on it or wiping my mouth on it is any better than burning it.
Also I think the promblem goes deeper than just the flag.Free speech is one of the cornerstone's of the American ideal once you start outlawing any expression of it that does not harm anyone or incite people to be harmed I think it is a very dangerouse road.

 

Well Finland has very strict regulations and laws about how the flag is to be used correctly. Using the flag incorrectly is a crime and a punishable act. This is one of the many laws which have remained from the WWII and while I do see it as some kind of breach of the freedom of speech I at the same time don't see why anyone should be allowed to burn or misuse the Finnish flag in any way. The problem to some might be though that you are not allowed to flag whenever you want. There are certain special dates when you are allowed to flag such as the day of independence.

Of course I think there is a major difference between keeping such old laws and taking them to use.

 

True, but then again, there's places like Abu Ghraib and Guantanomo...

That, to me, is the line between tasteless and treasonous. I believe that would constitute Sedition to some degree...

I'm not sure about that. Trying to incite negative emotions towards the Nation who's laws you live under is not becoming of any civilian...

 

True, but then again, there's places like Abu Ghraib and Guantanomo

Excatly why I think you should still be able to burn the flag.

 

The right shouldn't be so happy about the flag burning law, it might well backfire.

 

Where do you find these things Ragusa? They are extremely funny

 

So protest of any sort, in your opinion, is treason.

 

Of course, with weakening the home front, you aid the enemy and, thus, become a treasonous backstabber.

The U.S. right has already knitted a 'Dolchstoßlegende' for the Vietnam war (it was them dastardly protesters, without those commie-loving Jane Fonda types we'd have won the war), and will try the same for the current wars ...

See? Underway ... http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=277

[ June 27, 2005, 15:32: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were sure of it. I suggest you reference the Sedition Acts of 1798. This is Jefferson's (and Madison's) response, as it appears in the Virginia Resolution:

Not withstanding the Bill of Rights to the Constitution:

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_002600_alienandsedi.htm

On free speech:

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_033200_freedomofspe.htm

[ July 01, 2005, 07:08: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

Not necessarily. To spur a government to a particular course of action is one thing, but to behave in an unruly manner is another.

Could Burning the Flag, or defacing any Religious symbol for that matter, constitute behaving in an unruly manner, and thus be specifically exempted from that ammendment?

 

I find it funny that people find it acceptable to throw a whole country into war on basis on unsubstantiated allegations, while on the other hand freely expressing your opinions with regard to that war constitutes treason.

 

Ragusa, LMFAO!

I would bet that most countries have some sort of law prohibiting the public defacement of their flag. I'm not sure I agree with such laws, though. If I had my choice between 1000 man hours / month being spent on arresting and prosecuting flag burners or arresting and prosecuting serial murderers or rapists, guess where I want those man hours allocated?

Just to be on the safe side, I'll spell it out -- I want those hours spent catching and stopping the murderers and rapists.

 

Again, it comes down to demonstrating peacefully or acting as an unruly mob. I would like Flag burning classed as being unruly, and thus allow that as grounds for disbursal of the mob at the least, if not arrests for the perpetrators...

But wouldn't an unruly mob distract police from investigation of more serious crimes? Find a quick and easy way to keep them in line then these officers can be used for more important work...

 

Define "Unruly". If all they're doing is making a lot of noise and burning a flag, or giving speeches about how the government is evil or corrupt, then IMHO they are not posing any threat to the welfare or safety of their fellow citizens (though they may be annoying, no question). As soon as someone breaks a shop window, halts someone's vehicle as it is exiting a parkade, or assaults someone, then the gloves come off. At that point, the demonstration has ceased to be a peaceful one and the tear gas canisters and Tasers should come out.

The organizers of such protests need to take precautions against their people committing crimes. If they don't, they've got no one to blame but themselves if they end up getting gassed and beaten.

 

I am sure breaking windows, assault, etc. is already covered by existing laws. No need to have new ones .

Gnarfflinger, I may have misunderstood what you say. Is it acceptable for you if one, for example, burns a flag in his own backyard? Or bash the government at a private party, let's say. Are you against just public displays of such acts?