Loose change

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Loose change

for those who havent heard of this, this video challenges the conventional belief that the WTCs collapse because of the air planes that hit it, as well as the other 2 flights on 9/11


dont blast me with political rhetoric, id prefer you discuss this and debate the legitimacy of it

 

You'll have to forgive my weariness with this topic, but it has been done to death. One thing that so often gets forgotten in such discussions is the middle ground (and reason). You end up with one group arguing that it was only the planes and absolutely positively nothing else , and the other group claiming there weren't any planes, or some such nonsense.

The bottom line is: Regardless of what other factors may have contributed to the towers' collapse, the big-ass planes crashing into the sides of them are definitely up near the top of the list. The impact itself may not have been as enormous as people would think, given the size of the planes, but the shockwave down through the supports of the building can do some very severe damage.

 

then i trust you watched this video?

 

No. As I said, the topic has come up many times before. Add the size of the video and me being on dial-up, and I'm just not that interested in hearing this stuff for the umpteenth time, half a decade after it happened.

 

yes i realize the punishment this beaten dog has recieved but this video compells you to question how the WTC really fell. this obvously has gigantic implications such as whether the US government is trustworthy etc. once again, i do suggest you watch this video just to see other possible explainations and you can try to discredit them on your own time

 

I found the case they presented almost as compelling as the case made about how we faked the first moon landing.

 

examples

 

No need. The video is ludicrous.

 

no i actually like an explaination, i am interested in peoples take on fringe beliefs and conspiricy theories and how they justify there agreement/disagreement with it

 

I find arguments presented by groups like this tend to follow the "you can't explain each and every aspect of evolution to my satisfaction, so therefore god created the world in seven days" line of thinking. Since we rarely crash aircrafts into skyscrapers at top speed it is somewhat unlikely that we would have all the answers for exactly why everything happened the way it did. That fact lends no credence to <insert crazy conspiracy theory here>. The stuff they had to say about the pentagon leads me to believe they know absolutely nothing about flying. I can gaurantee that crashing a jumbo jet into a stationary building is infinitely easier than landing a fighter jet on a moving aircraft carrier.....yet, somehow our pilots manage the feat every day. That point aside, I had friends who worked at the pentagon during 911.

[ June 12, 2006, 23:26: Message edited by: Drew ]

 

so before i start debating with you about this, how do you believe the WTC fell?

 

An airplane crashed into it.

 

ok then in the film it was contended that the jet fuel that was ignited on impact due to the airplane crash could only reach a temperature of 2000 degrees but the reinforced steel support beams that support the building has a melting point double of that, so if the heat did not weaken the beams how did the towers fall upon itself?

then the video says it was a controlled demolition that brought the towers down...which is flimsy at best

 

Not again.

Please, people, stop posting this load of

It just is a collection of the usual conspirancy thesises about 9/11. No proof, just a load of assumptions.

And, Picard, the topic is on the boards already, Use the search feature next time.

 

really now? so there is a topic that features this video? please direct me to it, and like i said have you watched it before you dismiss it?

 

For crying out loud it's one hour and twenty minutes long! I'm not going to watch a video about planes NOT crashing into the WTC when I saw the second one crash LIVE while I was watching the morning news.

I don't care about the Cuban missile crisis, just state the argument and we'll leave it at that, eh?

Considering how I have flown a plane before, never had any instruction, a friend is a pilot and let me have some 'air time' I can tell you that crashing a plane into something is a VERY easy thing to do. Line it up, full throttle.

As for the melting point? Well there wasn't just heat involved in the crash, there was force as well as heat and it's been mentioned nobody is going to 'recreate' this event to prove it is possible.

It was planes. PLANES. Why? Because several planes full of passengers don't just go missing...

Gods this has been done to death already and I'm surprised by the stupidity of some people.

 

I saw the planes fly into the WTC LIVE on TV. I have friends and family who live in Manhattan. I know people who have family who worked in or near the WTC. I know of people who lost family in the WTC disaster. Sorry Captain but I am quite tired of hearing conspiracy theories. Whatever my personal feelings regarding Bush and some of the other politicians I find it hard to believe that they would be party to a murderiing thousand of people in the USA. I did not and am not going to watch the video simply because it is too painful. It happened.

 

Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but I find the responses from a lot of you - particularly the hostility and willingness to dismiss it out of hand without even watching it - quite surprising.

I'm not a conspiracy theory nut, but I did find a number of the arguements presented in the movie rather compelling. I've always had a lot of questions about that horrible day that have never really been answered. I was glued to the TV from 10am that morning until about 3 days later. I remember seeing reports of a "second explosion," that were never explained or followed up on later; I too thought the falling of the towers looked eerily like a controlled demolition; I also found it strange that no chunks of the plane were ever visible at the Pentagon.

Now I can't speak for Captain Picard's motives here, but it doesn't make me a conspiracy theory nut or mean that I'm disrespecting the memory of those who died that day to have these kinds of questions. And I've seen several crappy 9/11 conspiracy web films before, too, even the ones posted here - but this is the first one I've actually not turned off after 5 minutes due to the laughability of the claims.

It's a rather well put-together film (despite the instant lack of credibility implied by the narrator who's voice sounds like he's 14) and poses several interesting arguements. Do I believe any of them just from watching it? Of course not. But I'd like it to be explained why at least SOME of the arguements are complete bunk rather than just dismissing it because its subject obviously hits a personal nerve, especially for Americans. At least then I'd have more respect for those dismissing it, and those who'd rather not watch or think about it should do just that and stay out of the discussion, respectfully with our best wishes.

 

Picard: Yes, I saw it. It's really stupid. And no, I wont dircet you to the other thread. If you are smart enough to register here, you are also smart enough to use the search function.

 

I watched some of it and didn't come away convinced. The key points that I can't get past are nobody knows exactly what happens when an airliner crashes into a building. I also have a problem with people who claim the steel wouldn't melt. I don't think it had to melt, I think it just no longer had to be structurly sound and the combination of heat, impact, and pressure I imagine would have been more than sufficient.

However, in my mind the thing that cripples all conspiracy theorists/nutjobs in my mind is the sheer impossibility of keeping a secret. I think the old rule of thumb is that a chance of a secret being blown is exponential to the number of people who know it. If this was an evil plot by the government I shudder to think how many people would have to have been involved. It isn't like "Lenny the janitor" spent Monday night wiring all the buildings with God knows how much explosive to pull it off. Nevermind all the people who would have been involved with the switching airplanes, blah blah blah. To top it off a government and society like ours has leaks like a sieve. For some mastermind to find the 500 or so people he would need to do the job and for them all to keep quiet or be snuffed out is very far fetched to me.

Now if someone could show me that Bush was a demolitions expert in the national guard, then maybe I could believe he pulled it off by himself.