The New Catastrophe in Gaza

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Tell me it didn’t happen.

Tell me that the Israeli government did not call the Palestinian leaders “terrorists” when the Israeli Army has been bombarding Gaza for days. An offensive that did not aim at military targets (were there any?) but at power and water plants, which could not be repaired without Israeli approval. Oh, the parts are now in, and whom will they give them to, who will repair the damage? They won't be handed over to what's left of the Palestinian government, by the looks of it? Israeli engineers? Not likely either, especially until the crisis is over. International aid agencies? Not going to when tomorrow everything can be shelled again. The plants were deliberately targeted to add to the "pressure." More on that later.

Tell me they didn’t say that even despite the fact that the Palestinian government was democratically elected, their terrorist behavior makes them unworthy, basically, of negotiating with – and that when everything, from Haniya’s office to police barracks to infrastructure, is being targeted until one prisoner is freed.

Actually, forget about it: Shimon Peres went on “Late edition,” and had to comment on the attack on Haniya's (the Palestinian PM) office. Basically, he told it ALL. You see, it was not an attempt on the PM's life, as it was carried out at night. No matter of the other implications, such as loss of material or the humiliation. Just think what would happen if a government building in your own capital was bombed at night. There are many more pearls of wisdom, but the best is this: "Either/or he is a government with all the responsibilities of a government, or it's a terroristic organization with all the consequences that stem from it." Nice, there is the idea that the Palestinian government should be the one doing the work. Never mind that it does not have the bloody resources of a government. Money? Nope, frozen. Military or police power? Next to nothing. Prestige? Same there. Guess who made sure the PG is as impotent as that. Never mind that it has been denigrated (claimed illegitimate), humiliated (the arrests), beggared (its accounts have been frozen) and no effort has been spared to make it as inefficient and weak as possible. Now it has to cooperate – quickly and effectively (hard enough for any government). How nice. If it does not give in to these demands, not only it itself, but the people of Gaza and the West Bank will suffer more of the same harsh treatment. Of course, the fact that it may not be able to cooperate so well is not mentioned. Hamas is not an army in the western sense, where no order from “above” is disregarded. There have been fractions and bickering even while Arafat was alive, and his successors are unlikely to have the same prestige and charisma. They cannot just “order” the release (never mind that if they did, it would be clear they were behind it), they have to use ask for it, and as a result they will probably be thought little more than Israeli lapdogs. So much for legitimacy, indeed.

This is political blackmail, pure, evil, and simple. Actually, not simple, because it works on two levels. It punishes, and promises to punish even more, the entire political movement HAMAS (read: the entire Palestinian government) for the actions of some of its members. Think the UK bombing everything IRA-related when PIRA bombs something. It also punishes the entire people of Gaza for the actions of the kidnappers (ten? twenty? fifty?). The only example of something similar is… well, there are the Nazi policies of revenge for assassinations during WWII (chilling comparison, is it not?). Sure, there aren't mass killings now – but the implied policies of collective responsibility are uncomfortably alike. Did Yusuf Mabhi (second cousin of Joe Blow, from the paternal side) ask that the soldier be kidnapped? Did he vote for or against Hamas? No matter – he won’t have electricity or water for weeks, or maybe months. If he is really unlucky, he may get hit by one of the hundreds of shells and rockets that are fired wherever there is a “reasonable chance” that there are Hamas militants.

You see, there is no other way. Tel Aviv says it will not compromise, for that is giving in to terrorism, and will invite more of it. However, this is exactly what they are expecting of the Palestinians. They want something – so they use force, and threats, to make them give in. If it works, why would Israel not use force in the next crisis? After all, it’s the one thing the Arabs understand, right? Nope, no hypocricy there AT ALL.

Apparently, a lot of people in Israeli government have incredible nerve - or should it be called just callousness. What is happening there now is pure terrorism, and they are doing it, not Abbas, nor the ordinary Palestinians (who get the brunt of the blow), not even Hamas – not to this degree, at least. Don’t believe me? Webster defines it as “Systematic use of violence, terror, and intimidation to achieve an end.” I will take teh "systematic" part as granted: it is done by a regular military, at the command of a state apparatus - you don't get much more systematic then that. There is violence, intimidation, and judging on the tactics used to bring the Palestians to heel, terror. What else do you call it when you don’t know if your home – or workplace – won’t be bombed tomorrow? Or that you won’t have water or electricity until you give in? No less than the US State Department defines terrorism as “The calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.” I’d it fits what is happening now to a T. If it smells like terrorism, looks like terrorism, and sounds like terrorism, it generally is terrorism. Well, not in the news, of course. Sure, there are bits like “warning” and “cautioning” when they bomb a parliamentarian’s office.

In the news, it is called “pressure.” I am quoting CNN. I thought pressure was something like sealing one’s bank account, or maybe criticism, and generally did not involve shooting rockets and killing people. Kind of like what has been applied to Israel in many cases relating to its policies with its neighbors. – okay, maybe a little more insistent. But apparently all you have to do is say that you want minimum casualties, and it’s all O-kay. Of course, you could try negotiating – you know, no casualties is just as minimal as you could get – or just threaten to use the army, but that is for wimps. We do not negotiate with terrorists, and all that.

No one called it “pressure” when Palestinain suicide bombers killed themselves – and as many others as they could. No one called it “warning” at 9/11. Now we are all supposed to get emotionally detached and almost clinically rational, because, you see, we should be objective, there is the war on terror (as if it’s not terror if it’s not by a muslim) and there is suffering on both sides. What bull. The Israeli government not only just performed an act of pure state terrorism, but they have the nerve of branding the other side as “terrorists,” and spewing such incredible hypocricies that my head is still spinning. Let's finally get it straight. Terrorism is a strategy. It can be done by any organization, regardless of size or affiliation. It is still terrorism if the so-called good guys do it - of course, maybe then they are not so good after all.

It is an old joke, and not a very funny one, but it bears mentioning. Alexander the Great once had to judge a captured pirate captain, infamous in his day for ruthlessly plundering many merchant ships.

"With what right, scoundrel, did you make the seas unsafe for everyone?" he asked.
"With the same right that you made the land unsafe, of course. Yet I do it with one measly ship, and I am called a pirate. You do it with a great army - and you are called a conqueror!"

[ July 03, 2006, 02:40: Message edited by: The Shaman ]

 

Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt es sich recht ungeniert.

Heh. Someone needed to get bitterness off his heart, yes? I suspect your anger is shared by a vast majority. Words fail most when it comes to Israel and the outrages it commits. I cannot help but feel that people here in Europe have come to dislike this nation for very good reasons.

And I shudder when trying to imagine what those Israelis opposing these crimes must experience. To watch your own country using such methods all the while. Unpleasant. Little wonder Israel's population is shrinking - or so I heard. I wouldnt throw in my lot with that state either.

At the end of the day I suppose the best that can be said of Israel is that it had no chance but to end like this: A common bully and thug. And terrorist. Too many enemies, no one with real interest in its well-being (least of all the US). Historical obligations and geopolitical interests make for poor allies and real poor friends. Friends of the sincere kind, mind you - those that wont back up irresponsible behaviour leading to selfdestruction.
It is tragic really. Especially for the Palestinians, though, who are caught in the middle of this farce.

 

Oh come on, people, take off your ideological blinders. Israel is hardly the only side to blame for this. Maybe the fact that Palestine is led by a movement which swore the destruction of the Israeli state has some relevance, yes? Or the fact that since the Israeli withdrew from Gaza, hundreds of rockets have been fired upon Israeli territory from there?

Also, when an army outpost on Israeli territory is attacked and a soldier kidnapped, what you'd expect their army to do? Normaly, this would be settled through negotiations between governments, but when the people in power in Palestine are responsible for these attacks, what do you think will happen?

 

Israel has killed 10 palestinians for every Israeli killed. Israel also restricts the movement of Palestinians within Palestine. Palestinians often have to go through Israeli checkpoints just to go buy bread. Palestine has no infrastructure. Israel does. When my 7 year old and my 2 year old get into a fight, I don't care who started it. It's the fault of my 7 year old for keeping it going. Clearly my 7 year old has a greater capacity for rational behaviour (infrastructure) than my 2 year old son who is just now learning to use the word "mine" (trying to develop an infrastructure) and, therefore, I expect him to behave more rationally when the two of them argue over a toy (West Bank). This isn't an ideological issue. Were the tactics employed by Israel not employed by a state, they would constitute terrorism. All one needs to do to see this is look "terrorism" up in the dictionary. Palestinians who were fortunate enough to not be forcibly removed from Israel early in its establishment are second class citizens in Israel. The nation has quite literally institutionalized racism within its legal system and governmental framework. They are reaping what they sow.

 

I sing no one's praises, khaavern. There is plenty of blame to go around.
But on a very basic level it strikes me as funny not to feel sympathy for a people fighting for the land their families lived on before soldiers drove them off.

The elections of Hamas brought this about? Israel has destroyed Palestinian homes and infrastructure before the elections. Israel's reasoning for resorting to violence against civilians? As random as the innocent people who died on both sides of this conflict. Casualties of terrorism.

What action should the army of a nation take to free a hostage? Bomb away, I suppose. Destroy civilian targets. Random violence in a mindless conflict must be the answer.

I dont know what an army should do, or even could do - other than making things worse. I know what response is to be expected of Israel's armed forces, though. I know it by the children they have shot.

 

"For religious quarrels to end, one side must perish" - some random idiot


The thing that sets me up is, after they more or less are done bombing each other (one side uses martyrs, the other side uses its army) for the time being, WE (europe, US etc) are supposed to fix it up again.
Both sides are led by brutal thugs so i say send in a bunch of troops, disarm all of them. Peacy under the gun is no true peace, but its not daily murder either.

"The nation has quite literally institutionalized racism within its legal system and governmental framework" <--- irony is so bitter sweet. But hey, what do you expect, sitting there surrounded by nations and ppl who... well... want to remove your entire ethnik group from existence is not a good foundation to become the next ghandi.

 

Fix it? If they wanted to fix it they would've done so 60 years ago. Or better yet, they wouldn't have started it.
Europe and the US have done nothing but make things worse for over 70 years (does the name Arthur Balfour ring a bell?). The "Europe and the US will fix it" attitude is barely 20 years old. Not to mention that both sides have to get weapons from somewhere, since neither is exactly a proficient manufacturer.

Think of it the other way... the surrounding nations had just gotten out of hundreds of years of occupation (first the ottomans, then the French or British), and they suddenly have these people appear there, kick their brethren out of their land and start their own state. It's not entirely surprising (though I personally find it very depressing) to see people like that idiot Ahmadinjad emerge as an answer to the whole "we are the chosen people of god so we'll kill you and take what's yours" attitude. I find it extremely disturbing that the descendants of people who died in the nazi camps would proudly claim they're developing a biochemical weapon that specifically targets a certain race. You'd think they would know better than to go down THAT road.

 

Actually, I think that Europe and the US could help resolve the crisis. Of course, that assumes both sides are willing to listen and discuss peace, and it seems like they may soon no longer be. It all seems way too much for just one soldier. Every year, tens of Israelis and at least as many Palestinians are killed or disappear. There is probably more to this one that the life of one single soldier. Apparently there are many in Israel that are less than thrilled by the prospect of leaving Gasa and the West Bank for good, and this serves as a good excuse not to do so.

Arafat himself had, as early as the 1980's, accepted the state of Israel; chances are that Hamas may do so as well, given time and peace. If the Palestinians can see the prospect of peace and security, it is likely that most of them would favor the party that leads them that way. However, the many crises will probably lead to the exactly opposite solution. Many Palestinians, impoverished and embittered, would find the radicals' platform much more appealing. After all, if they believe Israel had brought them nothing but pain, humiliation and second-class citizenship (and life), why would they not want to see it gone?

 

Wow, I can't believe the level of nonsense posted in this thread.

I will give you the recipe for peace in Palestine free of charge.

1. The Palestinians stop launching rockets into Israel.
2. The Palestinians stop blowing themselves up in Israel.
3. The Palestinians leave Israel alone and stop all of their attacks.

There you have it. These 3 simple steps will result in peace in the region. Until the Palestinians smarten up (which may never happen) Israel will be forced, yes I said forced, to retaliate with huge force multipliers.

Drew mentions that Israel kills ten Palestinians for each Israeli killed. They should increase that to 100,000 to one. Then either the Palestinians would get it or be wiped out.

I hear a lot of moaning about Israel being the aggressor. To me that is pure poppycock. Anyone who doesn't believe that Israel just wants to be left alone is delusional. Peace could be accomplished in an instant, if the religion of peace would stop killing people.

 

And how exactly do you expect a non-state with no infrastructure full of starving, frightened citizens desperate enough to do anything at all to provide for themselves to accomplish this? Magic?

The Palestinians, lacking order and infrastructure are not a "controllable variable". The change will have to come from Israel because Israel actually has the infrastructure necessary to actually enforce its own edicts. Israel, unlike Palestine, is a "controllable variable".

 

For a people lacking an infrastructure they seem to do pretty good at acquiring rockets and the materials to make bombs.

 

Not really. Compared to Israel, Palestinian technology is in the stone age. Their rockets are old and cheap. And their "bombs" are usually home made......which isn't hard to do.

 

I like the logic of Drew's fatherly post: you don't let the 2 year old off the hook, but you count on the more worldly wise 7 year old to lead the way to a compromise.

Though I don't see a solution when the people try to keep their historic national identity while being forced into such close quarters; if I wanted to rig a situation to blow up in my face the Nation of Israel seems like a pretty solid construct.

 

I suppose you say they should just drop dead then?
Most likely a change most people down there would welcome o.O

 

Great mature attitude there. I also remember you saying that the entire middle east should be blown up and turned into vacation resorts for Americans.

I would personally consider the treatment of the Palestanians to be worse than the 'black and tans' inflicted upon the Irish. Destroying Palestanian homes and olive groves will not exactly inspire peaceful actions. Neither will using sonic booms to terrorise (also known to cause miscarriages).

 

Of course not. I just think they might want to try treating the Palestinians the way they want to be treated. Israel has tried the "blood for blood' method since its inception. I think we can all agree that the "blood for blood" method hasn't worked, no?

 

Just as a clarification, I would allow other nations to attend DisneyWorld ME as long as they had the funds to go.

This makes no sense at all. Israel would love to completely ignore the Palestinians, however that is a little hard when they cross your borders, attack, and kidnap people (which has started this current catastrophe). Are you insinuating that the Israeli's should allow themselves to be blown up and after awhile the Palestinians will start singing "We are the World" and everyone will live in harmony? That is ludacris. I gave you the prescription for peace. Isreal is not the side that wants war. If peace is to come it is all up to the Palestinians. However, it is very obvious that they have no interest in peace and only an interest in murder. Hence, my opinion that if you can't deal with a people in a civilized fashion you are reduced to wiping them out. It isn't pretty, but to think that somehow the Israeli's have to be nice to their murderers is foolishness. Sorry, but that is how I see reality.

 

Hamas just like the IRA came into existence as a result of an oppressed governance, that is not to condone either but to illustrate why they came into being.

Just like Northern Ireland, Israel should take note that violence and tit for tat killings has proven unsuccessful on both sides it is only now through dialogue that there is any chance for a peaceful settlement.

Heavy handedness will not advance either cause only create a more dire circumstance than already exists.

[ July 05, 2006, 14:46: Message edited by: Cúchulainn ]

 

With one major difference. England occupied Northern Ireland. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and would prefer to have nothing to do with it. The Palestinians are not an oppressed governance as they have their own elections. Of course they chose to elect a government that only has an interest in continuing the violence. This is not Israel's choice.

 

True. But that's not to say the Israelis made no choices at all. With the attacks on them they face the consequences of those choices. It is their karma bearing down on them.