Divorce

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Be careful how you interpret these, Stu. People who live together or cohabitate before marriage are more likely to divorce primarily because they are far less conservative about marriage and divorce in the first place. Their greater propensity for divorce doesn't necessarily indicate that their relationships are less healthy or are in some way flawed...merely that they aren't opposed to divorce.

 

yeah, that's what I was getting at, I was tired though

 

It's a great factor, but a pain in the neck to use in an objective statistical analysis. Anyway - congrats, NOG! I wish you and Mrs. NOG a long and happy time together.

 

Well, I think it's more that they take the relationship as a whole, and with it marriage, less seriously. I don't doubt that most get married with the intent that this person will be their partner for life, just how carefully they consider that intent beforehand. Of course, that lack of careful concideration may be specifically due to the acceptance of a non-permanent possibility. In other words, we may just be approaching the same point from opposite directions.

On a side note, when my wife and I got married, she quickly decided that women who get divorced for anything more than the most serious of reasons are just nuts. The reason: All the name-change paperwork and tape to go through!

 

I think that most people get married because they love the person they are marrying and they want to have a ceremony wherein they publicly affirm that commitment and love. Of course there is also the positive societal sanction that goes with that marriage (usually but not often a religious one) but I don't think most people marry for primarily economic reasons.

Of course, sometimes people bail on their marriages because they are no longer convenient. I had that happen to me. She had sucked me dry of all vitality, life and money and it wasn't a rose garden any more, so she ended the marriage. So much for "through thick and thin". I'd like to believe that wasn't what she was planning when she said "I do", but who really knows what goes on in the mind of another human being?

I think it's too easy for people to get a divorce for BS reasons. Obviously if real abuse is occurring, then of course it should be made available.

 

Regarding people who live together and/or have sex prior to marriage:

Um...What? May I ask how this statement can be classified as anything other than wild speculation? How can you KNOW that people who live together and have sex before marriage take their relationship and marriage less seriously? And how does co-habitation and premarital sex cause them to consider the prospect of marriage less carefully, or cause them to accept marriage as a non-permanent possibility?

I'm sorry NOG, but I don't see anything that supports these statements. In fact, most people I am friends with - of which nearly all both lived together and had premarital sex are still happily married. Granted, that's a small sample size. Of all the factors listed the only one that passes the "eyeball test" for lack of a better term is that people who marry young tend to divorce more.

I do not doubt that the statement of "People who cohabitate and have premarital sex have a higher divorce rate that those who do not" is true and can be supported with statistics. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying the way you are interpreting it seems way off. Everyone wants to think their marriage and relationship are healthy and that they did things the "right way". And I have no reason to think that your own marriage is not a happy and healthy one. I'm just saying that because the way you did things worked for you, it does not mean that it works for everyone. To say that people who cohabitate and have premarital sex don't take their relationships and/or marriages as seriously as people who do not seems not only like a sweeping generalization, but is likely not supported by statistics.

 

Put me in the category of having pre-maritial sex and living with her before marriage. This September we hit the 15 year mark so I'm not convinced it is a prescription for failure.

 

I think if you made it more difficult to divorce, people would either just stop getting married, lie about why they are divorcing, or simply separate and see other people without bothering to divorce at all. Making divorce more difficult is not going to change anything.

I just celebrated my 9th in January. Our eldest turns 9 in May.

 

Man are you out of touch...

 

While the factors that NOG points out are likely statistically supported, they are not a condemnatin of a union, as three of our members have pointed out. What matters is the behavious during the marriage. If someone is unfaithful or abusive, of course a divorce is likely. If, however, a couple can do what is required to keep each other happy and see past their flaws or things that make them different, they can, regardless of their past, enjoy a happy and successful marriage.

Further, this is a continual process. It is not a case of find that right one and you're set for life/eternity. Soulmates are an illusion. [Mormon teaching] A former president of the Chruch, Spencer W. Kimball once said "Soulmates are an illusion...Any good man and any good woman can have a happy successful marriage if both are willing to make the required sacrifices.[/Mormon teaching] This Probably applies to common law relationships and gay couples too, but our faith doesn't go there.

Basically, those who have done things that are on the list that NOG rattled off can overcome those statistical harbingers and have a long and happy union...

 

I agree completely. Oh, and my wife and I have been happily married for five years.

 

Exactly, Gnarff. These are indicators, maybe contributing factors, not guaranteed causes. My grandfather smoked for 65 years of his life, but never once had any kind of cancer. My father smoked for 20 years, so far cancer free. Does that mean that smoking doesn't cause cancer? Not at all, just that it isn't a 100% thing. Our biology is far more complex than that. And if you think our biology is complex, our psychology is a doosie.

I came to that conclusion from a number of people I have known. Like you, it's a small sample size, but it's my experience. It may well not be 100% accurate, and I will include the experiences of the people on this board into my 'sample set', but the rest remain a reality.

 

People change over time. It is not suprising that sometimes people change in such a way as become more distant in their attraction for one another. If you or spouse has grown considerably faster in character or maturity than the other, then it is unsurprising that the relationships suffers.

Here is an example - when my wife and I married, we both were smokers and somewhat lazy and slovenly in our housekeeping, etc. As time went on, I gave up smoking and tried to live healthier. I broke the slobbish habit to keep my surroundings in good order, clean and organized.

She, on the other hand continues to smoke and eat "tater chips" on the sofa watching TV while her surrounds go to hell.

This causes me unhappiness. Communication of this unhappiness brings on no changes - even hostility some times.

Should I suffer unhappiness for the rest of my life because I have outgrown her?

Note - we are still married, going on 18 years now but I do feel at times that I should leave her and find somebody that brings to me happiness instead of misery.

So divorce being a legal option if I should chose to exercise it is a good thing in my opinion. Life is too short to suffer misery when we have the power to change it.

 

On a related note, I read Dr. Helen who has a fascinating piece on why men are no longer getting married.