Unconventional characters

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Hi!

Enough of this JUPP stuff already, that's been done to death a few times already. As in:

Your melee hits horse for 1723.
Your melee hits horse for 1432.
Horse dies.
Your melee hits horse for 1298.
/cast Resurrect
Your melee hits horse for 1459.
Your melee hits horse for 2645. (critical)
Horse dies.

How about some more.. unconventional characters this time?

Here's some for starters.

1) The all-singing, all dancing kitty-bear:
Human Bard/Druid
STR 6 DEX 4 CON 12 INT 18 WIS 18 CHA 18
Feats : Lingering Song, Extra shapeshift, Merchantile Background...
Perfect for a refreshing take on the "party diplomat" role - why send a Joe Ordinary when you can send your mascot? Shapechange takes care of the piddly physical stats during the tough early stages, and the caster form gets good protection from Mirror Images later on when both classes have some levels on them.

2) Elven archer Elite:
Drow Paladin(3)/Fighter(4)/Monk(3)/Cleric(x)
STR 18 DEX 20 CON 16 INT 5 WIS 16 CHA 5
Feats : Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Specialization: Axe, Improved Critical ....
With all due respect, but bows are for wussies. Thrown axes, especially of the two-handed variety (Flying Death), are where it's at. Get the bracers for an extra strike per round (Yuan-ti temple, monks only) and preferably a luck-enhancing item (or a few) and watch the ensuing carnage.

3) Bring on the pain:
Shield Dwarf Barbarian(x)/Cleric(1)/Druid(1)
STR 18 DEX 16 CON 20 INT 3 WIS 16 CHA 1
Feats : Heroic Inspiration
REQUIRED MOD: Armors give damage reduction
Combining the barbarians innate damage reduction with cleric's Armor of Faith, Bracers of defense, full plate and shield ought to make a tough nut to crack. But no need to stop there - let's make THEM suffer, too! HOF version of the Nature's Fury cloack (from Andora, Druids only), Plate of the Pit Fiend (chance to unleash Sunfire when struck) and Spiny Black Urchin shield (Poison on enemy when struck) oughta tickle 'em a bit.

 

Hi! Nice to see you back on the forums.
Some comments:

I've tried characters like 1) and usually have some problems with some of the buffs wearing off when I shapechange.
Druids are IMO probably the most underrated class in IWD2, since they are considered quite weak while they in reality are just a slightly less powerful alternative to the very good clerics. They're quite fun to play with even without shapeshifts so it could work anyway.

2) looks very nice and effective. A good way to implement paladin lvls to a melee-capable caster-character without XP-penalties. Usually placing the paladin lvl on one party member is something I can find quite tricky and always requires some thought.

3) would be better as half-orc to avoid XP-penalties. Otherwise it's probably fun to try the damage reduction path.

BTW. Have you answered the poll i started a year ago:
http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44858
I guess you don't belong to the ones that think "But Jukkas guide is just crazy!"...

 

I like it!

 

Yes, that's a drag. As far as I've tested it, the game seems to keep a separate buff list for your normal form and each one of the shapechanged forms - thus to keep your efficiency, you'd need at least twice the buffs.

However, the caster form beats any and all of the animal forms around level 12 or so, unless f.ex. you happen to need decent DEX for pickpocketing. This combines nicely with the fact that (some) of the animal forms are by far the quickest way to reach 2 or even 3 melee attacks per round, beating even pure fighters. (Black Panther feat is actually pretty decent for when you get it - 3 melee attacks at level 6? Sign me up!) In other words - you'll really want to stay as an animal for most of the early chapters, just shifting out to do heavy-duty buffing and healing with your early spells.

The animal forms get a decent Generic Armor bonus, too.. together with Mage Armor, Cat's Grace and Protection from Evil, you don't even need to fear getting hit by most of the early mobs with BAB of less than +5 or so. Just remember that Dodge and Expertise feats won't do you any good while shapeshifted.

 

hmm... strange.
1) It's not powergaming, nor roleplaying.
A character that needs INT, WIS and CHA is the most difficult imaginable, he'll be pathetic in melee (OK shapechange I get it, but weapons are better) and his spells will stay low level because he's 'dual' class.
And as for roleplaying, what's the story behind a druid/bard? Does he sing to the animals?
2) What a waste of levels! 3 levels paladin only so you can use the sword?
3) This one's a bit better, nice way to combine all retribution items on a character. Definately make him a half-orc, and improve constitution. With one level cleric your 1/- damage reduction won't last long (maybe I'm mistaken, but it's rounds per level right?), but even so, would you take a level for a measly 1/- damage resistance?

Sorry to sound harsh, but these oddballs are so freakish, they belong in the Legion of the Chimera! And in the lower ranks at that.

 

What about celtic mythology? Druids and Bards belong to the same world. Music plays a more important role in some religions, Druids being priests why would that be so strange? Druids and Bards are masters of lore, they know much about legends and myths. Druids are known to be the repositories of the culture of their communities.

Does a Cleric of Oghma sound weird to you?

 

Druid/Bards belong in the Legion of the Chimera!

Yes, both druids and bards are charismatic characters, but the difference between manipulating people and charming animals is a big one.
d&d rules has lost it's charisma requirement for druids for a good reason: Charming animals requires empathy (wisdom), nor flair (charisma). The main reason being you can't talk to (maybe on a basic level) or reason with an animal, but you can speak 'body language' with it. A druid doesn't have the social skills to manipulate people like a bard.
When a bard is in a hairy situation he needs intelligence and charisma to reason or bluff his way out. When facing a rabid animal, a bard's skills are lacking: He can't reason with animals, and lacks the wisdom to understand them. This is why druids and bards are entirely different.

Now this character proposed, a druid/bard, is very unlikely and impractical both in game terms and roleplaying. Can you envision a person who likes the solitude of the outdoors in the day, but also likes to sing in the local inn in the evening? He has a frail body, but apparently has boundless mental faculties, being intelligent, wise AND charismatic. I'll have whatever he's on.
It's mentioned that the shapechanges early on give better combat bonuses than a fighter has, but that wears off quickly. In the late game, this character would be like a mediocre summon, without the expendability. Talk about a liability.

You mention Clerics of Oghma for their lore? I don't find that strange at all, it's like a typical medieval clergyman, dedicated to the advancement of knowledge for the church. But Oghmans are more like clerics with mage qualities, and the lore is intelligence based. Bard's lore identifies through the bards acquired songs and stories, this is more charisma based.

 

we all know that the druid bard is a woman (e.g. snow white?)...even the stats reflect that...ehem. The druid aspect allows communication with animals and the bard aspect simply reflects the animal songs that the character knows (the howl song of the wolf...the blue jay's call, etc). The animals are drawn to the character due to her charisma ...charisma reflects (imo) the character's confidence and the ability to manipulate people (and in the bard's case, the environment...thats the spellcasting stat remember)...and I know an awful lot of ladies with WAY more confidence than the men i know.

 

Whenever I play a Druid/Bard I usually consider it to be like Taliesin or Myrddin from the Stephen Lawhead "Pendragon" series.

 

OK, I stand corrected. I guess a nymph falls under the same category... but there ain't no nymphs ever going to make it in a powergaming party. It's pure roll playing.
Low level spells, mediocre fighting... I prefer my characters to have some use later on in the game.

 

I'm not considering the powergaming aspect. Druids are not hermits or anchorites they belong to a community living closer to nature or in the wilderness (at the very least a rural setting). Kuldahar is a good example of such a community. Being priest like (although on an animistic level) druids are required to perform many services for their community. A druid will perform many rituals having to do with the festivals, blessing of crops and harvests, etc.

I'm not saying your representation of a Druid as a man living on his own in the wilderness is not acceptable in a fantastic setting, but based on what I read about celtic culture and mores, it seems to me that the Druid was also meant to provide a service to the community as a spiritual leader and advisor.

I mentioned Oghma because the name is taken from Celtic mythology. IMHO Bards belong to that tradition and therefore I see a link between them.

In any case I don't see how a character build couldn't be viable from a RPing viewpoint. You can always come up with some weird background or justification. In fact that makes the character more interesting and I believe this is what this thread is about.

Nevertheless it's quite obvious that from a powergaming viewpoint such characters can be effective but they are rarely optimal. Still they are interesting and at the end of the day that's something that needs to be taken into account.

Wild elf Sorcerer/Bard/Druid with uber CHA and GSF Enchantment?

 

OK, here are 2 weird powergaming builds

Well, I have a character in mind, that I'm actually using. It's a powergamed bard/druid if you like:
Kim of the Woods 18-16-18-3-18-3 Lawful neutral human, starts as Monk o/t Old Order, but immediately switches to druid levels. She takes a level ranger at some point to dual wield. The wisdom score is important to get her spells and AC up, so she drinks the normal and HoF Potions of Insight: 2x -1DEX +2WIS
With level 40 ruleset she can get up to 18-14-18-3-32-3.
With Ease-of-Use she can buff the party with Stoneskins and Barkskins.
When shapechanged, she retains her AC bonus to dexterity, and again Ease-of-Use grants her a kickass Elemental Half-Dragon form.
Customdll allows her to wear a robe and retain the AC bonus from WIS.

Now where's the bard part? I'm going to give her a level bard for two reasons:
The Rode o/t Neutral Archmagi has the highest deflection bonus, 1 more than Phaen's Tattered Robe she's been wearing, and there are so many bard items in the game, it's nice to have 3 more quick item slots I can use.
Bard1/Monk1/Ranger1/DruidX

Correction: Ah crud, bards can't be lawful. This is a pointless comment now. I could have given her a level Transmuter instead to wear the robe and benefit from the Transmuter quest, bumping up my alchemy with items and song, but it may not work. Anyway it's not worth it anymore, taking a level basically only for a +1 deflection bonus.

On the topic of weird characters, how about my first in line:
This is more in line with the kind of scenario you mentioned, a pilar of the community, and a bard. Crazy Laey is a Chaotic Neutral Bard 5 /Battleguard of Tempus X, 18-15-16-5-15-11. The funny thing is, she's my only character that doesn't have a warrior level at all, and still she's my first in line. At first I dismissed the idea of having a cleric with bard levels, but it turned out to be ideal:the bard spells are healing/buff and can be cast outside combat while taking off armour, and her 11CHA allows for casting of level 2 bard spells provided she wears any charisma booster (Oswald obliges). The 15WIS with the well known ring allows her to cast her level 9 cleric spells later on. What's weirdest about this character is that she's a battlecleric, without needing a warrior class. Just keep improving constitution and she'll get plenty of hit points. Of course, I take 5 levels bard for the brilliant Tymora's melody, explained in one of the powergaming guides. She rivals my true battlecleric and 2nd in line: Lizzt Do'Urden fighter 4/ Morninglord of Lathander X

Who said weird and wonderful characters can't be powergamed as well?

 

It's easy to picture a Druid/Bard. Who says Bards are the type you only see singing in inns at night time, or that all Druids have to live in dangerous forests spending their time performing special rites and ceremonies? A Druid/Bard could be a person who reveres nature and spends his time serving the balance and composing songs along the way. It's easy to picture an elderly, sagely person living near where the forest meets a small human settlement, who visits the town from time to time entertaining the village children with his songs of nature and the balance, and whom the villagers would often consult concerning stuff about the forest (which would be their main source of livelihood). Only reason why most Druids dislike having settlements nearby is because people tend to take things who don't speak, think or move around like them for granted (NWN 2), but some settlements aren't like that (ie, the Wandering Village) .

 

The ultimate archer gets the pally levels for the +1 STR & WIS quest bonus, not for the Holy Avenger as that's a sword. Good BAB doesn't hurt either. Depending on how fast one wants to get their hands into the higher level clerical buffs, a single pally and monk level will do the trick with minimal hassle, instead of the ten off-levels as depicted above.

The Bard / Druid isn't really a half-half, most likely a Bard(5) / Druid (x). The puny physical stats are a similar trade-off as an early Rapid Shot feat for the stereotypical pencil-necked diplomat character, barely managing to carry a bow for limited ranged support. Neither is supposed to use physical means against enemies later on, that's what they have spells for.

I don't equate druids to hermits - they may live secluded life on the eyes of a townsman, but the bonds in such a society may be much, much tighter. Native American Indians seem like a much better comparison to something 'druidic' than, say, anarchistic environmental activists in my book.

 

Harper?

 

This build doesn't sound so bad now. I thought it was 'multiclass', but this one could be quite interesting.

I got my PhD in Biology, so I kinda personify with the druid character. I'm no charismatic spokesperson for nature, so neither should the druid be. I named my druid after a girl I fancied in biology class, so maybe she should be charismatic

 

As for RPing ideas for Bd/Dr or Dr/Bd, here are 2 ideas from mongoose publishing.

Whisperer(bard/druid) - Plants & animals have a voice that scant few humanoids can understand, let alone speak. Whisperers are what many jokingly refer to as a side order of druids. They understand the ways of nature, but approach it with a certain wild joy that sometimes is at odds with the stern approach of most other druids. Whisperers feel a certain kinship with the beasts of the land more than with the plants & the earth, and such sympathy lets them sing with the animal's voice, and the animals join in with pleasure.
Unlike most other druids, they have little qualms with the civilised world, as long as they do not witness the mistreatment of animals: they serve as superb teamsters, falconers & trainers, and travel often to farmlands and other places where people may have problems with animals, smoothing the relationships between hunter & prey, shepherd & herd.

Nightingale(druid/bard) - The birds in the trees can make finer music than the most skilled bard. Their beautiful harmonies and choruses effortlessly outshine the clumsy instruments & hoarse voices of mortal players. They are bards who have learned the dawn chorus & recognise it for the symphony it is.
They are usually wandering minstrels on the borders of civilisation. They visit outlying towns for coin & supper, but are equally at home in the deep wilderness, alone save for the animals. Their music can sooth a savage beats or inspire animal lust in the most staid cleric. They are oath-kin to satyrs & nymphs, merry wanderers in the night.