Help choosing class combos and feats

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The NWN official campaign kind of sucks, though the second expansion is cool and the modding tools are very easy to use. You can easily get around it's min/maxing limits by modding your character. You can also create custom gear and really you could create a whole new game if you spent the time.

I edited again, taking your advice more strength.
Now I'm not sure about the sorc's wis though since I've got conflicting suggestions. I was under the impression arcane casters don't need wisdom so much since they get good will saves, and since mine's a drow also MR. But the MR doesn't really add up to much until late levels I guess.

 

If you're worried about saving throws you should raise con.
Getting slain forever without a chance for resurrection is far worse than getting held for a few rounds.
If you can't bear the side effects of having higher con just use an editor to remove the many extra hitpoints you get and spend less skill points into concentration.

An enemy spell caster must be the same level as a drow without additional protection to get a 50 percent chance to surpass his SR. But your characters will very soon be several levels higher than the spellcasters they meet.

 

How much con would you say is worth it if I'm taking points out of dexterity? Or should I lower wisdom below 10 too?
Would you say it'd be better to have 14 in both or 10 dex and 18 con?

 

10dex, 18con is better!
I disagree that wis is close to useless for a sorc. Wil save is the only type of saves that my magicians fail. Still my main caster usually has a wis score of 8 or so because there are better things to choose.

Fortitide save isn't used much, but quite importand where you need it, and the extra HP are very important for sorcs and wizards. 18 con doubles their HP compared to having 10 con.
All my chars in my parties, except possibly a high-AC decoy or multi-talented bards, have high con but no one raise it at lvl ups.

Dex isn't that important for sorcs, as they will have low BAB and usually spent most of the time casting spells. The extra AC can as coineineagh said be replaced by spells. The sorc shouldn't need to take many reflex saves, and mirror images usually help, especially together with the SR of drows.

My main sorc is usually my party talker and has maxed cha (obviously), con and int (sorc and talking skills) and the rest at around 8 or so. Str should neve be less than 6 unless you really want to rely on buffs, but more than 8 is useless.


Otherwise your party looks nice, but avoid all those mix in classes. Take them only in HOF if you plan to play it, and even then they are relly not that useful. One level for weapon proficiencies or other bonuses can be useful though earlier, but no more than that.

 

It's worth lowering wisdom to 8 and even lower. A level 1 drow sorc with 8 wis, 16 dex and 16 con has the same will,reflex an fortitude saves, and the will saves improve faster.

Con is probably a little more useful than dex if you don't want to use ranged attacks, but it looks odd if the sorcerer has more hitpoints than the tank.

 

I looked it up, and I finished my HoF game in 37 days. I pause often though, even when opening containers. When the clock is ticking, my party is never doing nothing.
I'm pretty sure I rested less than 10 times, more like 5 or 6. Preparing to rest is the most tedious part of the game for me: I wait with leveling up my characters until before resting, so that I can earn more XP from kills. Rearranging spell picks takes a lot of time, I don't like doing this too often. And I try to rest before going to a new map, so more enemies spawn because I'm higher level.

 

Would it be a bad idea to start with 2 or 3 characters, and add 1 or 2 later?
If not, is there a good level to add them in at?
I was thinking I'd give a few a bit of a head start to get some better spells a bit earlier.

 

Not a bad idea atall, it's a widely acknowledged tactic to get more XP out of the game. Whichever you choose, always leave the cleric in.

 

Well, I've been away a long while, and it seems the discussion has gotten interesting.

-WIS on Drow Sorcerer: I'm used to my Sorcerer being a diplomat, so I usually give him decent WIS. Its true that if you keep him in the backlines, Will Saves are almost never needed. I'd still recommend at least 8 or 10 WIS though, coz losing a char to a Will spell is the suckiest thing EVER.

-CON vs. DEX: Lol, that's an ongoing one between me and coineineagh. I vote Speedy Gonzales, he votes Terminator . Seriously though, its all about choice and playstyle. Either don't get hit at all, and keep magical protections on against spells, or get hit and take it in stride. Totally on you.

-Adding chars later: Best spot is the Glacier and Ice Temple. Golems give HUGE xp, and it'll be even more, thanks to your adding 1st level chars. Or you could add em in Horde's Fortress Warrens. Don't do it outside, or the Warg Riders will roast them on a spit.

@coineineagh
37 days!? Now I feel lazy -_-

 

Reading this thread has made me reinstall ID2 & start a new game. using IWD2 extras, Light of Selune & Undead Targos. Ha!, i forgot about theshadow that gets conjured up from brohn(?) corpse, he mutilated my party! Going all little people this time DW fighter, DW cleric(tempus), DW cleric(lathander), GN mage, HL rogue/bard & HL sorceror. Went & got the healing potions first & had to fight the shadow with very little armor, 1 mace & Q-staffs! Needless to say i had to try again.

 

@martaug: YW. I'm glad i could contribute in piquing your curiosity

DEX loses its usefulness in melee in HoF mode. Then its only bonuses are reflex s.t. and ranged attack. Ranged attack shouldn't be relied on, and you better not build your character for it, as they aren't HoF-proof. Reflexes are useful against spell damage, but more hitpoints helps too, and this will always help.
Speedy Gonzales vs. Terminator. who'd you seriously want on your teammeep-meep or "I'm here to protect you"?
There are very few cases where diplomacy makes a WIS check, and frankly, that's what paladins are for. Don't alter your sorcerer for a handful of WIS checks, he'd benefit much more from improved life stats.
Don't feel bad about the 90 days, but did you find all that sleeping tedious?

 

Au contraire, mon ami, DEX can go Godlike in HoF with Tenser's on. The strongest tanks I've made were all DEX based, raising only DEX. And by strongest, I do mean with good CON (14-16, + Aura of Vitality), good STR (16, +Champion's Strength and Tenser's), and the bonus hit points (min. 11d6). Its true that DEX w/o Tenser's isn't worth it. In that case you're definitely better off with CON.
Nah, sleeping isn't a big deal. I usually don't need to prepare spells beforehand, considering I prefer Sorcerers, and only a handful of divine spells are good anyway.

 

Anyone mind if I hijack this topic?

So, I'm in Watchers Keep in BG2, and as is usual I've started thinking about starting IWD2 again.

This time though, I think I'd like to try a more powergamey party. Not as much as the JUPP parties, but similar in that I'd like to make use of Drow for the spell resistance so I can bombard my own party freely, and maybe 4 or 5 characters instead of the usual 6. I'd like a party that can do normal without being boring to play, and possibly HOF if I ever get around to it. I've never actually finished the game on normal, I think I got to the part where you (spoiler)

Spoiler

have to repeat several days over and over again to right a particular wrong

So, with that, I was thinking a party like this: (party order will change of course)

Drow MorningLord of Lathander x/Paladin 1 (Lawful Good obviously)
Ability scores:
Str: 16
Dex:8
Con: 16
Wis: 18
Int: 6
Chr: 16
Because of the low int, I'd probably invest more in Concentration than in anything else. Why the high charisma, you ask? Because I really, really like turn undead. Dont ask me why, I love the idea of fights in which my cleric can win by blasting undead with sheer force of personality (with some godly help of course). Amdahls law might state she would be a better warrior overrall if I put those points elsewhere, such as to higher dex and maybe intelligence, I'll decide whether a number of slightly easier fights are worth it. I might also toss in a monk level for the AC bonus (in fact I probably will).

Drow Druid 17/Cleric 13
Str: 18
Dex: 18
Con: 16
Wis: 18
Int: 5
Chr: 5

Similar to the JUPP character, she would gain druid levels for normal mode, and then cleric levels later. Some might say getting the better healing spells first would be better, but I'd prefer to have some variety in my characters.

Drow rogue(2)/Wizard X (probably specialist of some kind)
Stats: high dex, con and int, low everything else.

the rogue levels are for evasion and the skillpoints for picking locks etc. This guy will have plenty of skillpoints for things such as alchemy, as well as spellcasting power.

The last character would preferably be a sorcerer and party spokesman, with 16 int and 10 wis for talking options, and maxed charisma depending on race. the only thing is, I was thinking about trying out a bard (have never played bard) and am wondering which race to pick. the logical choice might be human, in that he will level fast, wont have any exp penalties, and I can keep him out of trouble while he bombards everything living that surrounds the other 3. But I'd prefer an Aasimar for the bonus to charisma. What do you guys think? Is the Luck effect worth the 5 bard levels?

 

1. Is not exactly what I call powergamey, unless you raise only WIS and focus on offensive spells (Lathander has no shortage of those, though). I wouldn't recommend trying melee combat with this one, trust me.
2. Is fine.
3. Is pretty cool. It could make a better tanker than #1, do you realize that?
4. I'd suggest Sorcerer. Bards are good with their songs, but you need the Sorcerer's power in a party like this. Just dont take Spell Penetration. You can keep the Bard as a mule, and bump him later. And yes, those songs are generally worth it, especially Tymora's Melody and the War Chant of Sith.

 

For 1 I would be focusing in Wis, and would 1 Paladin level (for saving throw bonuses) and the monk level (another +2 to saving throws and + a lot to AC).

As for 3 - never thought about using him as a decoy or tank, but yeah I suppose it makes sense.

for 4, the sorcerer levels are a given. But is it worth making him a multiclass bard/sorc, such as bard 5/sorc x? I would probably level him up as a sorc until he gets at least level 4 spells, then raise the bard levels, then continue as a sorc again.

Alternatively, I could keep 4 as a pure sorc and add a 5th character as a bard/something else, probably sorcerer again.

 

Either way is good for Sorc. I'm a devoted Sorcerer player, so I'd recommend pure Sorc, but its your wish.

 

So this is what I went with:
Aasimar Paladin 1/Sorcerer X
Str 8
Dex 6
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 10
Chr 20

He's the party diplomat and bombardier. Opens maximum conversation possibilities while having good saving throw bonuses, which helps offset his super weak reflex saving throw.

Female Drow Paladin 1/Morninglord of Lathander X
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 12
Wis 18
Int 6
Chr 16

Shes the healer, buffer, undead destroyer and later bombardier of the group. She has Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus: Small Blade. Shes not great in combat right now - poor hitpoints, bad AC, doesnt do a lot of damage - but I expect when I take a level of Monk for the AC bonus and Ranger for dual wielding, she will get better. Also, higher spell levels will get her access to better buffs, which will help.

Female Drow Druid X/Cleric X (later, probably Battleguard of Tempus for the Axes)
Str 18
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 5
Wis 18
Chr 5

Shes pretty standard right now, druid spells are coming in handy, I suspect she will make a good bombardier later when she has access to Flame Strike etc.

Male Drow Rogue 1/Diviner X

Str 8
Dex 20
Con 16
Int 20
Wis 10
Chr 6

I chose Diviner based on the JUPP recommendation, time will tell whether the lack of Conjuration will hurt. Already I'm missing Melf's Acid Arrow, I must say. Otherwise, standard stuff.

So far the party is doing okay. We dont do as well in melee combat as some parties I've had, perhaps not surprisingly. My tactic right now is to get everybody to bunch up and then have the druid, the sorc and the wizard cast burning hands, which does quite a bit of damage to enemies and is often fatal for orcs and goblins. My wizard has just learnt fireball, when I next rest he will be able to cast it. Only problem is that I need to keep my sorcerer away from those spells, although he has good saving throws, he doesnt have spell resistance like the Drow. Spell Resistance, btw, is well worth the price of entry.

So far I'm at character level 6 for the drow, which means effective character level 8, and at the horde fortress goblin warrens. It will be nice to see how the party does with a bit more spell power at higher levels, because right now I have to rest frequently - without magic, this party is useless.

 

Good enough party at the start, assuming you make #2 (AFTER Monk lvl) and #3 tank. Fantastic party at later levels, considering the sheer blasting power its going to have. All the best!

 

Well, I'm at the River Caves now. My characters are all character level 12, so we have access to 6th level spells, which is great.

I gotta say, its good to have blasting power, but its not the easiest playthrough I've ever done. I guess the lack of melee power does hurt early on.

What is also irritating is that my spellcasters quite often beat my party's own spell resistance. About half the time when I cast a fireball, my own party takes damage, which is really irritating. Spell Resistance is not as effective as I had hoped. At least enemy mages have a really hard time affecting me with magic, which is a huge bonus.

The other thing is that I'm discovering what a godsend evasion is. Even if Spell Resistance fails, my high dex characters nearly always make their reflex saving throws and end up taking no damage from fireballs anyway. I'm going to give my Rogue 1/Diviner 11 another Rogue level for precisely this reason. Spell Resistance just isnt enough.

I've also added a 5th character. She should help bring the average party level down to increase experience gains, and will one day be quite useful. She's a:

Female Drow Paladin 1/Monk 1/Painbearer of Ilmater X (have only got the paladin and monk levels so far).
Str 14
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 6
Wis 18
Chr 12

I kept the Charisma at 12 so that, with Eagle's Splendour, she gets a meaningful bonus to her saving throws. She should be a better frontline warrior with enough AC to stay out of trouble (not sure about HOF mode though). I think she will take over the role of battlefield healer while my morninglord will concentrate more on damage spells and buffs.

EDIT: On second thought, maybe I would be better off not having the paladin level at all, and dropping Chr in favour of dex, str, and con?

 

You'd be better off w/o the Paladin level. A meager +2 or +3 to saves doesn't justify losing the combat capability. Of course, you'll have to take weapon proficiency in case you mean to use a martial weapon other than Bow or Longsword. If you want to keep the Paladin level (for Holy Avenger or for proficiencies), I'd say dump CHA anyway, and put the points in combat stats.