Co8 mod: Does it add feats, spells, etc. that should have already been in the game?

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I'm still trying to decide if I should play vanilla first, then try the mod, or just go with the mod and do one playthrough only. I was looking through the release notes and if I read it correctly, it seems like the mod actually adds a ton of spells, feats, etc. that you would think the game should already include. Does the vanilla version really feel like a complete game (ignoring the bugs) without these additions, or does the mod bring it more to the level of where it should be? I can't imagine playing without some of the basic spells, feats, etc. that I would have already expected to be there.

Also, with the new level cap of 20, does the game accommodate the fact that you get a more powerful character once you've passed level 10, presumably sooner than when you would have in vanilla? How is this balance handled?

One thing that sounds interesting about a level 10 cap is that it might more closely mirror a PnP game where every level matters and you progress more slowly. With a level 20 cap, it seems like you might start to get stupidly overpowered once you get in the teens. Is that what happens?

Thanks!

 

Th level cap is raised, but as far as I noticed you do not level up faster (I have not spent much time examining the differences that thoroughly though I'm afraid)

I barely played the game before twitching manically and installing Co8 and it still provides a nice, interesting challenge. Problem is if you get a decent way into the game and go I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! like I did, you do have to start again on the upside you can swap between the Co8 front end and the normal game if you wish to continue at some point in vanilla mode.

Once you pass level ten, however (I haven't yet) I should presume you get less exp per encounter (if it's calculated ilke it should instead of static values, which if it does follow 3.5e rules it will do so) so levelling will taper off once you get more powerful anyway.

 

Well, for one thing, unless you use a two or three man party with no NPCs, you won't get above level 14 or so anyways without really trying (camping for random encounter XP, etc.) Second, the newest Co8 mod removes most of the Co8-added new content other than bugfixes so as to preserve the game balance that was present in the vanilla game. In my experience, which does not yet include the newest mod with the content removal, the game was a little unbalanced due to the added XP and gold from the modded content so I am happy to see the change made with the new mod. It is worth noting that the modders did re-stat many of the vanilla game's monsters so as to make them closer to RAW (and in most cases, tougher) so the higher levels the game lets you attain don't make you as overpowered compared to vanilla.

As for the new spells and feats, etc - they mostly only apply to higher level characters anyways, so you don't really feel like you were slighted by not having them in vanilla.

The XP and CR for encounters seems to be set by the engine and does not continue to scale when you level beyond 10. Up to level ten, the game correctly scales the CR and awarded XP based on the characters' level - so a level 8 character gets less XP than a level 5 character for the same fight, but this is not supported once you get above level 10 unfortunately. Maybe this could be corrected by a future mod, but it seems likely it would require a .dll hack or it would have already been done.

 

I had a 5 man party and got all characters to max level. This included playing all the added content "normally" and then killing everyone at Hommlet and Verbobonc (and almost everyone at Nulb to boot ). Mostly very entertaining, but I noticed that having an overpowered group made rummaging through the Temple itself very tedious. Characters leveled up quite fast while massacring the good people of Hommlet, but they didn't get much XP from the upper levels of the Temple - although I recall having always at least 8 xp per kill, no matter what level/CR.

The quality of the Co8-content is excellent, but it takes some fun out from the rest of the game. Maybe playing most of the original content first would be more balanced? But I'd still try the vanilla game (w/o bugs) first.

 

Yes, if you level up to 14, 15, 16 (by resting a lot, etc.) then you will become very overpowered if you are using 5.5.0 (or earlier, but why would you ). The 5.6.0 mod actually removes much of the extra content (the orcs at Hickory Branch, etc.) because the Co8 team is working on rebalancing these areas for high level parties.

There's also a new add-on pack called War of the Golden Skull (for 5.5. or later) that adds additional content to the end game. The author recommends levels 12-15 or so for that.

 

Care to elaborate on what the problem was with the vanilla game? Bug-related? Not enough content? Somehow not as compelling as the mod?

Thanks.

 

I only played the game with the official patches. I found that with a party of 5 PC's and no NPC's you level up to the max (10) at a reasonable rate. You get to enjoy level 10 and do not have to wait too long to complete the game. It appears that the XP is well balanced to allow you to reach level 10 shortly before you complete the game.

 

Did you play with Patch 3? I've heard to skip that one, even if you don't use other mods, because it causes problems.

Is the game still doable with no NPCs? Or do the NPCs add extra quests/value similar to the NPCs of BG2?

 

The game is totally playable without NPCs. I found most, if not all, of them totally useless and annoying after a while. Some of them have small quests and/or chance to get some useful equipment, but it's not necessary to have them tag along after that.

The quests usually include escorting the NPC to safety or finding somebody. There are also simple romances, but they're not much compared to BG2.