Magic-Heavy Party

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I was thinking of making a party of just 2 sorcerers (SKing one NPC into a Sorc) and so I started looking through a list of spells to see what was "needed", what was "wanted", and what would be a waste. After looking through, I decided I really wanted a Mage/Thief and Mage/Cleric, too, especially since they can both be Wild Mages with SK. I ended up with the following spell list:

I:
Chromatic Orb (everyone)
Magic Missle (everyone)
Identify (one)
Shield (one)

II:
Blur (everyone)
Glitterdust (one)
Melf's Acid Arrow (everyone?)
Mirror Image (everyone)
Resist Fear (one, maybe two for safety)
Web (two)

III:
Flame Arrow (everyone?)
Haste (one)
Lightning Bolt (one min, maybe more)
Melf's Minute Meteorite (everyone)
Skulltrap (everyone?)
Fireball (everyone?)

IV:
Emotion Hopelessness (One)
Greater Malasion (One)
Improved Invisibility (One, maybe Two)
Minor Spell Sequencer (everyone)
Spider Spawn (One)
Stoneskin (Everyone)

V:
Animate Dead (one)
Breach (everyone)
Cloudkill (everyone?)
Dominaion (two)
Lower Magic Resistance (two)

VI:
Chain Lightning (everyone?)
Contingengy (everyone)
Death Spell (one)
Improved Haste (two)
Mislead (one?)
Power Word: Silence (one)
Protection from Magical Weapons (everyone)
True Sight (one)
Tenser's Transformation (one)

VII:
Finger of Death (one)
Sword of Mordenkeinen (two)
Ruby Ray of Reversal (two)
Spell Sequencer (everyone)

VIII:
Horrid Wilting (everyone)
Power Word: Blind (one, maybe two)
Simulacrum (everyone?)
Spell Trigger (everyone)

IX:
Black Blade of Disaster (one)
Chain Contingency (everyone)
Shapechange (one)
Timestop (everyone)
Dragon's Breath
Energy Blades
Improved Alacrity
Summon Planetar

Can anyone think of any other must-haves or favorites? I'm obviously planning at least one to be a meleer, probably the mage-thief or mage-cleric, though they aren't concerned with limited spell selection.

I was also looking through info on here to find out how many spells they get per level and I ran across the Geomantic Sorcerer kit. Does that work well? Would you recomend it in place of the mage-cleric? As I couldn't find an answer to my original question, does anyone know how many spells a sorcerer knows per level (per level)? Thanks for the input.

 

Sorcerer-wise, I"d much rather have Project Image than Simulacrum.

For 9th level spells, I wouldn't go without Wish and Spellstrike. A sorcerer with Wish doesn't even have to rest. Ever.

I"d also incluse some protection spells like Protection from Magical Energy and Protection from Elements... Spell Imunity is also a good choice since it protects you from a school of your choice. Abjuration Imunity will actually make you imune to Imprisionment

I believe the Sorcerer learns 5 spells picks per level, except for 8th and 9th level spells, which you only get 4.

 

I
The cleric/mage should already have anti-fear priest spells. If you think those are not enough, just get a Resist Fear scroll copy for your thief/mage.

II
I'm not very fond of Melf's - casters will usually be immune to it and it's not very effective against warriors (who you will need to kill asap). Any spell you think is best should do though (not much to pick from at lvl 2 anyway... except Invisibility, the low level version lasts 24 hours). Do take knock, unless you plan on raising your thief/mage's pick lock to 90+ from the onset (would gimp other thieving skills)
Everyone should get Web, that way instead of having two people cast two sets of Webs for two rounds you can have all four people casting Web in one round and doing something else in the next.

III
Only the single classes should get Flame Arrow, to maximize its potency. Lightning Bolt is nice but should be left to the multi-classes (maxes out early). Fireball > Skull Trap for everyone until around LvL 13-15 (mage levels, so the Sorcs will start using it earlier). Afer that Skull Trap's damage really starts to shine.

IV
Hopelessness also has a hidden Resist Fear effect, one is nice but two would be better. You might wanna give two people Malison, just in case. Improved Invisibility is optional (lots of invisibility potions/rings), ditto Minor Spell Sequencer (especially for the multi-classes, since their low levels spells will be weaker for some time yet). Spiderspawn would be nicer on two people (better to summon enough fodder in one round than do the same in two, and they work very well with web too). Give one or two people Polymorph Self - the gnoll (free troll-killing for quite at will, and it uses a +3 weapon), the spider (stacking poisons) and the jelly forms are too nice to pass up.

V:
Both single classes should have Animate Dead (they're the best all-around summons mages can have for a while yet). Spiderspawn will remain useful against humanoids, but will not be effective against other things. Cloudkill... optional. With that many mages, you can just give everyone cloudkill wands. Don't forget Spell Immunity for everyone.

What you pick after is a matter of taste I think, and would depend on whether or not you'll be playing though Tactics.

There should be a table of that in the BG2 area of the site.

 

Yeah with the amount of cloudkill wands in the game I really wouldn't bother giving everyone the spell. I'd also give more than 1 of them true sight, just incase one of them is incapable of casting said spell at the time.

 

Yeah, but I don't like relying on wands. Call me crazy.

 

Interesting idea for a group you have here. Think I'll try that one out too some time. But going with a wild mage instead of a second sorcerer, methinks.

As for spell selection, you could make one sorcerer more general purpose, like you would for a solo sorc, and make the other more specialised. I'd leave offensive, debuffing and summoning spells to your sorcerers, and let the M/T and C/M handle buffs and such.

 

You're crazy!

I mean, I wasn't much of wand user myself, but since I started to rely on them most battles became a lot less of a challenge. Wands are your best friend, specially since you can use them in armor or while Tenser transformed.

Also, I'm thinking about your sorcerers and their limited spell picks. I'd rather have a decent damage spell for 5th level, like Sunfire (very useful if you find yourself being mobbed) or Cone of Cold, instead of Cloudkill.

 

If what you want is a really magic heavy party then wild magic is the way to go. Sorcerers are great when it comes to spamming damage spells (especially in games like IWD2 in which getting the right spells can be tricky) but Wild Mages are way more flexible and in the end more powerful (good wild surges can really make challenging battles much easier). Thanks to Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, Wild Mages can cast any known spells so spell selection doesn't matter that much in the end.
Last but not least Wild Magic is just too much fun!

 

On the subject of Cloudkill: There's plenty of other lvl 5 spells that are more useful than cloudkill. My personal selection would be (in no particular order):
- Animate Dead
- Breach
- Lower Resistance
- Spell Immunity
- Sunfire
Cone of cold could work too, instead of sunfire, but sunfire bypasses magic resistance. Leave cloudkill to your M/T and C/M if you must, or use wands. Remember that everywhere you say you need one or two to have these spells, you can also cover them with your M/T or C/M.

Get project image for the 7th lvl, ditch simulacrum and get pierce shield in its stead, which is a good spell for lowering magic resistance of enemies that are immune to lower resistance and such.

Leave black blade of disaster to your M/T and C/M and get wish for you sorcerers. I'd leave spellstrike to your M/T and C/M too. In a pinch you could use one of the many wands of spell striking.

All above considerations only apply to the sorcerers, of course. Your C/M and M/T can scribe every spell they wish and you can always decide what to let them memorise.

/edit

Couldn't agree more. Though I'd still use my sorc for the time stop / improved alacrity combo (optionally preceeded by project image).

 

Since we're on the issue, I have a question. Does Alteration Imunity makes you imune to Time Stop?

 

Thanks for all the input. You're right about Wild Mages being mad fun, which is why I'm making my two multi-class mages wild mages (using SK).

I don't like Sunfire because I like to cluster my people, so an AoE centered around on of them that isn't party-friendly is a no-no. Although, if everyone cast it at once...

Cone of Cold is powerful, but I'm not sure I like the range (and again the AoE may prove dangerous).

The bit about Projected Image and Pierce Magic I'm taking to heart. I had been debating between Simulacrum and Projected Image already, and I was looking for an excuse to try fitting Pierce Magic in.

Finally, you're probably right about being able to make due with wants for Cloudkill, but I do really like that spell. Still, it may not prove as useful in this party as in previous ones (lots of summons).

 

If it weren't for the fact that you get a wand of cloudkill in Irenicus' Dungeon that can be recharged as soon as you have the funds, as well as finding others early, I'd disagree. Even so, I often have my wizard memorize that spell early on to save money. It's one of the most useful 5th level spells, along with breach. I don't usually take animate dead if I have a cleric in the party. Only if I'm using a druid for divine spells will I consider it. That said, I never have my sorcerer take cloudkill because of the number of wands out there even if it is one of the most useful spells. The same goes fore fireball. If the wands cast 11th level magic missile instead of 1st level I'd skip that spell too. That's actually something I'd like to do for an upgrade mod.
On the other hand, I often have a hard time picking between death spell and death fog, both of the same level and both instantly banish summons. The difference is that death spell is party friendly, while death fog harms enemies that aren't summons regardless of level.

 

Depending on what mods you are playing, I would take the following spells (among others, obviously):

Level 1:
Chromatic Orb (instant death at higher levels, its well worth it)

Level 2:
Horror (Level 2 crowd control spell, works until quite late in the game)

Level 3:
Slow (enemies that fail a saving throw get 1 attack per round, and huge THAC0/AC penatlies)
Flame Arrow (try a sequencer with 3 flame arrows in it. 45d6 damage at level 15 I believe)

Level 4:
Greater Malison

Level 5:
Lower Resistance
Breach (a must if you are playing SCSII)
Chaos
I dont tend to use cloudkill, dont find it useful.

Level 6:
Death Spell (fighting loads of weaker enemies? Kill them all one shot. Also insta kills summons. Can kill enemies up to an umber hulk in strength, so quite useful).
Pierce Magic
Improved Haste probably isnt useful in your case because its best for buffing fighters.

Level 7:
Finger of Death
Ruby Ray
Khelbens Warding Whip

Level 8:
ADHW
Bigby's clenched fist can disrupt enemy caster's spells, because the first round has no saving throw. As long as they dont have spell turning or something, they will be held for at least one round.

Level 9:
Timestop and improved alacrity (duh)
Spellstrike

 

You probably confusing pierce shield (lvl 8) with pierce magic (lvl 6) here. It is pretty easy to mix up the names there. Although, you could take pierce magic as well, then drop lower resistance in favor of... cloudkill! Your spell selection could then look something like this:
Level 5:
- Breach
- Animate dead
- Spell immunity
- Sunfire
- Cloudkill!

Level 6:
- Death spel / death fog
- Contingency
- Pierce magic
- PfMW
- Take your pick: Mislead, PfME, PW: silence, tenser's

I'd still keep sunfire, though. Cast PfMW, walk up to that group of drow, then let go with a sunfire. Better yet, put three in a chain-contingency to be released on sighting an enemy once you're in their midst.

For the final spell choice in lvl 6, you could also pick true sight, though only for one of your sorcerers.

It certainly has its uses, but I'd still not take it for a sorcerer. That's because, unlike the spells I recommended for lvl 5, it loses its usefulness after about the first half of the game, then just becomes another of those unused spells.

I agree with you on animate dead, though. Definitely one to leave to your cleric, if you have one. Still, for a party like this which will probably rely on summons a lot, it wouldn't hurt to have a few extra people who can cast it. Plus, it would probably take a much longer time for the C/M to reach a level where animate dead becomes useful (i.e. you start summoning skeleton warriors) than it would for your sorcerers.

The only umber hulks that are affected by death spell are those that appear along with those mindflayers when you save Phaere, presumably because they are somehow flagged as summoned creatures.

I'd take either ruby ray or Khelben's, not both. You can give one to each sorcerer, if you want. Finger of death is rather optional, if you ask me. It doesn't work reliably enough for me to usually bother with it. It is pretty awesome when it does work, however.
I'd rather rate Mordy's and projected image as indispensable lvl 7 spells, not those you mention. Mass invisibility is an interesting option here too, as a buff for your summons. Improved invisibility for everybody is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Yeah, I probably meant pierce magic there. I was dropping Simulacrum for it, so...

Lower Resistance is a must, though, for those early dragon fights.

I'll rely on my cleric for True Sight.

That's one of the reasons I want it on a sorcerer. Both my mages will be dual-classed, so they'll be lower level.

This is wrong. I've killed the Umber Hulks in the bottom of De'Arnise Keep with a single Cloudkill dozens of times. It works.

I thought Mass Invisibility only granted normal invisibility, not improved?

 

No, Invisibility 10 foot Radius, level 3 I believe, grants normal invis. Mass invisibility, level 7, grants improved invisibility.

Yeah, it does work on Umber Hulks. What you're talking about actually is mind flayers, doesnt usually work on those. It also works on Sahuagin and most Kua Toa (sp?). And spiders, and orcs, and hobgoblins (although it is somewhat of a waste of a level 6 spell on them).

I've never seen whats good about a Mordy's sword in this game, since its just a difficult to kill summon (without death spell that is). Likewise with projected image - I prefer simulacrum, although even that is heavily limited.

 

I love Mordy's Sword! It's an almost unkillable summons and not half bad at attack, either. Use it for a tank and it can take on almost anything.

 

Again, mixing it up Pierce magic, lvl 6. Pierce shield, lvl 8.

Probably related to the above mix up, but lower resistance is available from clvl 9, pierce magic from clvl 12.

I could've sworn I didn't cast confusion on you I was talking about death spell, not cloudkill.

I remember being rather disappointed in the effectiveness of death spell on umber hulks after seeing it work so well with Phaere's rescue, but it has been a while, so my memory is somewhat fuzzy about this.

A hard to kill summon and you don't see the benefit? Cast haste on them and sit back to enjoy the show. And even if you don't use them like that, you must see the benefit of having a nearly invulnerable frontliner?

Project image can cast everything you can, while a simulacrum can cast up to, what, lvl 6, lvl 7 spells? Use in combination with farsight or wizard eye to unload your entire spellbook at opponents as many times as you have projected images memorised. Let your projected image cast wish for you for an extra free try at wish: rest. Project image with extra cheese toppings: cast time stop, improved alacrity, farsight to find the enemy and unload your spellbook in a few turns (assuming robe of Vecna + amulet of power here). Or have your projected image summon a couple of planetars and mordy's, buff them with resist fear, haste and mass invisibility, then have your summons kill the projected image to free up your movement and walk with them into battle. Project image is the base of an arcane master's power / cheese. What's not to like?

 

Mordys swords are the only summons i ever use other than the ridiculously powerful planetars

Ive tried almost every mind flayer strategy I've read on the boards or in faqs. Although a lot of them work, the easiest method by far is summoning a group of mordys swords, hasting them, and letting them go to work.

 

BLAAAHHH!! Fffbbbfbfbffbffffbbbt! I mean the level 8 one! That one! Whichever it is!

I assumed they used the same mechanic. Odd. I'll have to try it in De'Arnise keep sometime. Wait, does Death Spell auto-kill any non-summoned creatures?