Spell Discussions: Level 1

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The plan is to try and discuss each spell, and find their (potential) uses for them. And to end it, we'll choose the top 5 (and sorcerer picks). We'll move up the levels as we start to agree which spells should be chosen, and why. Debate/discussion purpose.

Alright, so what I will do is list all the spells and their school in a format like this:
[Spell] (School)
I think my manual may have some errors, so feel free to correct.

Below, I will add a "-" (dash) and say what I think about the spell. At the end I will summarize which spells should be picked.

Then, what you could do is copy the spell(s) or the whole list with my input. Then below my input, add 2 dashes to argue with whether my choice/opinion was good/bad and why.

EXAMPLE:

Is this understandable? Hopefully this works out.


Armor (C)
-This buff actually seems useful if the robe of vecna and bracers of AC# weren't available so early on. It lasts 9 hours and you have your base AC set to 6, before any bonuses.

Blindness (I)
-This is a rather useful spell. Lasts for 10 turns, wow. Only problem is getting through the saving throw, instantly disable any archer/mage enemies with a level 1 spell. Relatively short casting time.

Burning Hands (Alt)
-This would actually be a good spell if it affected a wider area. But as it is, it's just horrible. Plus you have to get up close.

Charm Person (Enc)
-I've always thought it'd be better to kill them instead of charming. I am clearly not familiar with this spell.

Chill Touch (N)
-I don't understand what the -2 THAC0 modifier means. I've tested it and it seems you can hit multiple times until the spell wears off. It doesn't inflict a stacking -2 THAC0 penalty. Your weapon becomes a glowing hand and you only inflict fist damage +1-8. Pretty crappy.

Chromatic Orb (Evo)
-I believe this is worth taking. The only level 1 instant death spell.

Color Spray (Alt)
-I've never found a need to have my enemies knocked unconcious. Perhaps this could work on friendly people without them turning hostile? Allow you to do certain things without getting into trouble.

Find Familiar (C)
-I've read a bit about these familiars. They don't seem all that useful, and you gotta be very careful not to get them killed. I can only imagine them being useful as a scout and/or for more HP.

Friends (Enc)
-Can only imagine using it for bartering purposes.

Grease (C)
-Seems too difficult to pull off (keeping party safe) without getting much of a benefit from it.

Identify (D)
-Glasses of ID pretty much throws this out the window.

Infravision (D)
-I have not yet found the effect of this besides making things glow red during the night.

Larloch's Minor Drain (N)
-I learned that if you cast this on yourself, you actually heal. Though 1-4 HP seems insignificant.

Magic Missile (Evo)
-I believe this is a must-have spell.

Protection from Evil (Abj)
-This has its uses. A must for a solo mage type.

Protection from Petrification (Abj)
-The only time I actually knew petrification was coming my way, was trying to get into spellhold without the wardstone.

Reflected Image (I)
-A weaker version of Mirror Image perhaps? It seems some spells effect the real caster even with Mirror Image casted. Would this reflected image absorbs any and all types of attacks/spells?

Shield (Evo)
-Seems pretty bad to me.

Shocking Grasp (Alt)
-This has a rather short casting time, and inflicts elemental damage. And because you always hit, you can interrupt a mage with stoneskin. I wonder if it would count as a spell if you attacked with it though...

Sleep (Enc)
-Really bad.

Spook (I)
-This could be pretty interesting, but only affecting 1 target doesn't seem too useful. With a rather short duration too.

Top 5:
Magic Missile
Chromatic Orb
Protection from Evil
Friends
Blindness/Shocking Grasp

Sorcerer:
Same as above


------New results
Party:
Blindness
Chromatic Orb
Friends
Grease
Magic Missile

Solo:
Blindness
Chromatic Orb
Friends
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil

[ August 05, 2007, 02:23: Message edited by: syuusaru ]

 

The problem with most level 1 spells is that they aren't so useful as they were at the lower levels (BG1), either due to enemy saving throws having improved or to the easy access to lots of magic items which make up for some effects. With that in mind, I left some of my favorite like Armor, Sleep and Shield out.

Here are my picks:

Friends: very useful for shopping.

Identify: with or without glasses of ID, it's priceless when you don't have a Bard around.

Magic Missile: quick, does good damage, improves with levels. Need I say more?

Find Familiar: the familiar pretty much never leaves my pack, but a level 1 spell that gives 10-15 permanent HPs instantly? Hell yeah.

Chromatic Orb: one of the few that remain useful as you get access to higher levels.

I'd like to mention Infravision as the one spell I have never cast in years of playing the BG series.

 

I only ever use Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Armor, Shield and Identify (though I usually just rely on the glasses or scrolls so I don't take up the slot).

In general, I try to avoid any spells that require a saving throw. I never use sleep, blind, etc. for that reason. I figure in the time I could try and fail to put them to sleep I could get them that much closer to dying with MM or CO. Yes, I realize CO requires a save, but only for the added effects, not the damage. Plus, I've only rarely had it crap out on me.

Of occasional use are: Burning Hands, Friends, Reflected Image. I would include Shocking Grasp and Frost Touch, but they both require a touch attack to work, a move I've always considered to be the dumbest thing a low-level mage can do. The rest I generally think are a waste of a spell slot.

 

BG1 holdovers...

• Armor: Very useful before you got enough money for a Robe of the [Alignment] Archmagi. In BG2, not so much.
• Burning Hands: Emergency "stop hitting me!" spell at lower levels; against BG2 enemies, just a nudge.
• Identify: No Glasses of ID in BG1 and much lower lore due to levels and ability score bumpage due to tomes. And even with them in BG2, you might still run into more than three (or six; I think there's a second pair or possibly more) things that you need to identify in a day.
• Larloch's Minor Drain: When you've only got single digit HP in the first place, healing 4 HP while doing 1-4 damage to a distant enemy is frickin' incredible. But since it doesn't increase with levels, it quickly becomes outpaced by MM.
• Protection from Petrification: Roof of Durlag's Tower, last monsters under Candlekeep, and the basilisk area east of the Nashkel Temple. 'nuff said. By BG2, even if you run into petrifying enemies you can just break out the undead summons, which are immune to petrification.
• Sleep: Useful at lower levels when 2d4 Hit Dice worth of enemies can make the difference in whose ass gets handed to who.

-Grease: Useful for bombing. Cast between you and enemies that you've scouted, and then let the Fireballs / ADHW / Incendiary Clouds / whatever fly.

-Infravision: Most worthless spell in the game because the BG series doesn't implement the penalties for combat in darkness AFAIK. But it's a second level spell in PnP for a reason.

-Reflected Image and Spook: just basically downgraded versions of Mirror Image and Horror. IMO they were created/included to spread out the numerous level two choices into the level one slots a bit.

-Shield: Never underestimate the ability to ignore enemy Magic Missiles. Was especially useful in BG1 when a single disrupted spell could shift the balance of an entire battle and low AC wasn't quite as easy to come by.


All that being said, I just load up on Magic Missile for disrupting enemy spells or quick damage. More refined tactics are for higher level spell slots.

 

Hmmm, manual didn't mention the Magic Missile immunity for Shield. Then again, it doesn't mention a lot of other stuff because it's outdated. Though I still can't imagine it being too useful. I find that MM isn't used as much in BG2 as it is in BG1. And you'd then have to find out who it gets used on.


I guess we all agree on Magic Missiles and Chromatic Orb. The rest are personal preference.

Though I would like to have a few more spells we can all share in common. Keeping in mind that we're trying to find their potential in BG2.


I'd like to bring up Protection from Evil one more time. Considering most of the enemies you fight are evil, wouldn't this be one of those must-have spells? It is a mage's only protection from fiend-type summons, and can be cast on others. Though the duration could use some work.

I assuming people have their eyes on a Staff of Magi which grants PfE. (Doesn't seem to protect me from fiend summons, even after re-equipping. Bug maybe.)

 

level one top five?
hmmm...

- Magic Missiles
- Chromatic Orb
- Colour Spray
- Protection From Evil
- Burning Hands (it's still damage and works out for trolls...remember the castle full of them?)

 

Burning hands could be used to kill trolls, but since a high-level chromatic orb deals acid damage, that usage gets superceded.

The problem about Find Familiar is you only need to cast it once in the game. So it's not useless, but it's not useful sitting there in your spellbook either.

I don't see why they need color spray AND sleep. Both do the same thing it seems. I tried relying on sleep to kill goblins as cheaply as possible, without wasting a fireball. It works, but it's slow watching your mage fight.

People say they use Protection from Petrification against beholder's flesh to stone ray. I thought it'd be dispelled by their anti-magic ray...

Didn't know shocking grasp always hits.

 

I agree mostly, with a few exceptions
Armor (C) - Nah, mages shouldn't be in a position to get hit anyway, you get stoneskin soon enough for a sorcerer, though there may be some uses for a fighter mage early on.
Blindness (I) - Made redundant by glitterdust at lvl (which is like party friendly area effect blindness which also has the added benefit of turning invisible enemies visible)
Burning Hands (Alt) - nah, you don't want to get close
Find Familiar (C) - you want to cast this exaclty once and then keep the familar out of harms way, wait for the scroll i guess. Actually on second though you might as well take it - all the other spells you'll be casting less than exactly once anyway.
Protection from evil - I've barely ever cast it - one for the priests imho, and theres the SotM if you're soloing.
Chromatic orb - pretty much no chance of it effecting anything you'd want it to (+6 save or something ridiculous) and it deals less damage than MM. Glitterdust followed by a barrage of darts is a surer way of killing enemies imho
Magic Missile - Too awesome for words, use it to disrupt spells and wear down mirror images/stoneskins. Decent damage for the level too - fill up all 5 slots with it.
Top 5 Spells - 5 Magic Missiles ...and I doubt I'd cast anything else, maybe Identify for a little bit, until you get the good old glasses of ID.

 

The major differences is the area of effect, and who it effects. Sleep is limited to 4+3 hit dice enemies. While Color Spray affects those with a saving throw. Either way, Sleep is still superior, as you'd want to kill stronger enemies rather than knocking them unconscious. Though, it still has its uses.

I actually never thought of using Sleep to kill off a bunch of weak, annoying enemies. Always used a fireball or something to speed up the process. That's a + for Sleep.

Find Familiar is indeed useful, but like most said, you only cast it once, ever.

With a little more testing, I've determined Shocking Grasp to be a worthy spell. It's on par with Magic Missile in the "disrupting the spellcast" game.

Like I mentioned earlier, it always hits. Pierces Stoneskin due to its electric damage. And this is the important part; it interrupts through Globes of Invulnerability. It won't do damage, but the "always hit" factors in, and shows the person getting hit for no damage. And therefor disrupting the spell cast.

However, it won't work against spell reflections and absorbtions. Examples: Spell Turning and Spell Trap. You'll actually have the damage reflected to yourself if used against Spell Turning. The physical AND electric damage!


Anyway, doesn't look like anyone has anything bad to say about Friends. I'm thinking this should be a top 5 in common. I can't imagine when you'd want to actually pay more for something.

If you're soloing, I highly doubt you will have an easy time getting that staff, and at a low level. Hell, even with a party, you may have some trouble if you aren't at a decent level. You have to go up against a rather strong group of enemies.

It's more of a Sorcerer/solo thing, a cleric with the 10' radius PfE does a better job. Lasts longer too.


Refined top 5:
Chromatic Orb
Friends
Magic Missile
Shocking Grasp
Sleep (party) / Protection from Evil (solo)

So how is that?

 

...and you won't be gating things unless you're a decent level or have a priest in the party (they get pit Fiends sooner). But yeah, its still better than most of the other spells at this level and would probably make then top 5 by default.

But it has to be cast in melee, you need to hit to roll (even at +4 you're chance isn't that good with wizard THAC0) and to cap it all off it does less damage. Magic Missile also has the added bonus of removing layers of protection - what I'm saying is there's no point in memorising it for any situation in the game and even less point casting it if you have a MM memorized.

I also don't like sleep, just because there aren't any enemies in BGII that will fall for it that can't be dispatched far easier by other spells or simple hit/run shenanigans. I reckon Identify should be there - at least it'l get cast once and a while before rest.

 

Gating and summoning fiends wasn't the point I was trying to make for Protection from Evil. Most enemies are evil, the -2 penalty to enemies hit rolls and +2 saving throw for you can prove to be valuable.


Alright, Shocking Grasp is off the list. It's actually pretty useless as the information from the manual is quite off.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6134/shockeg6.jpg
I prefered using the manual because it's on paper and much easier to just flip through the pages.
Oh well.

I guess Sleep is pretty useless afterall, outside of the weak enemies that come in groups. Goblins as mentioned above are the most common of them. But a fireball or any decent area attack spell will do a better job.

Identify could be useful, but those Glasses of ID are available so early on, it's kinda pointless to ever have the spell.

Maybe Blindness oughta go back up there. Lasting 10 minutes is pretty hardcore, no bonus/penalty to the saving throw either. Only argument against it was that Glitterdust does a better job. Though it sacrifices a longer duration for the bonus effects.

Having a mage or cleric disabled for 4 rounds may not be enough time if you've got fighters to kill off as well. But having them disabled for 10 turns, surely is.


One more:
Blindness
Chromatic Orb
Friends
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil

So how is this now?

 

Yeah, I was merely pointing out how Sleep could be used, not arguing that it deserves to be in the top 5. I'd rank Identify better than Sleep...

 

syuu:

Chromatic Orb is highly over-rated. The save is so high, you might as well just cast "Blindness", which has similar effects but no bonus to save.

There is a ring at the start of BG2 which gives you 18 CHR. And having a high CHR isn't such a big deal, anyway.

My 1st level Sorc picks are:

- Magic Missile (no explaination necessary!)

- Spook (-6 to save penalty, disrupts enemy scripts.)

- Blindness (Blindness for 10 turns is pretty much a death sentence).

- Grease (An AoE spell which slows is actually quite nifty, although I use this pick the least.)

- Protection from Evil (Great 1st level protection spell, and useful if you want to demon summon. But you can get this effect permanently from Staff of the Magi, so eh, it's disposable.)

Sometimes I'm tempted to substitute 'Grease' for 'Charm Person'. The bonus to save sucks, but it's still -2 better than Chromatic Orb.

 

I don't find Chromatic Orb overrated. Sure the saving throw is high, but saving throws are usually brought down with Greater Malison and Doom.

I have nailed I.E. Firkraag quite some times with Chromatic Orb.

I don't know if Chromatic Orb is in the 3.5 edition, but I understand why newer CRPG's doesn't have it on the spell list. I find that spell overpowered.

 

Ironhawk:

ANY spell is viable if you nerf saving throws with Greater Malison + Doom. But when you compare Chromatic Orb with other alternatives in Lvl 1, you find similar spells which don't have such a ridiculous save bonus (blindness).

 

I like Chromatic Orb a lot. It's instant death when it works and that's always good especially with a level one spell.

Armour, Find Familiar and Infravision are all useless. Find Familiar can be cast from a scroll. Armour is made redundant by bracers and stuff. If you want Infravision that much you'd better play an elf or half elf or whatever.

Shocking Grasp is not a good choice, you don't want to go into the fray just to use it.

 

I still think Identify should be on the list; you're going to want to ID more than 3 items/day and to do it in a shop costs 100gp a pot. Also I have serious doubts you'll be casting Blindness, Friend or Prot. from evil more than once in the entire game. I have similar feelings about Chromatic Orb, but people do tend to like it, and if you've used a greater malison/doom combo and run out of other save or else spells, then it could be better than MM.

I guess the following would be my top 5, though I doubt I used anything other than the top 2.
Magic Missile
Identify
Chromatic Orb
Protection from Evil
Friends

Edit: yeah the manual isn't really that great, which I reckon is a real shame, especially considering how awesome it looks. The Baldur's Gate II Spell Reference is a pretty good unbiased and comprehensive resource. There are also a few guides out there, but they tend to be fairly opiniated and oft conflicting.

 

burning hands is great when you start as a solo sorceror

 

Yes, but Blindness doesn't get better per level, or have Flesh to Stone or instant death effects.

In my book that's what makes Chromatic Orb cost effective.

Besides that, when you are low level, you can stun low level monsters very often.

 

Color Spray is useful for mages that can't memorize Enchantment spells (i.e. Sleep). Prot. from Evil becomes fairly useless once you have a cleric in your party who can cast Prot. from Evil 10' Radius which covers the whole party and lasts much longer.