Spell Discussions: Level 1

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Oh I agrre. If you have a cleric in your party, Protection from Evil is not very interesting. IMHO a cleric in the party is a must have.

 

Heh, not the Chromatic Orb argument again. Yeah, it's a +6 save, but it's a level 1 spell. If it was less, it'd be the ONLY level 1 spell you'd use. It's gotta balance out. Instant death at level 1 is a lot to ask for.

18 CHA doesn't give you the best discount at shops. You rarely ever need CHA except for using shops, so the Friends spell works great because you'll be casting it anyway.


Also, when the Glasses of ID says it identifies 3 times/day, it actually means everytime you rest. Which is 8 hours. Think of it as having 3 extra spell slots solely dedicated to identify.


For the future, let's have two top 5 lists. 1 for party, and 1 for solo:

Party:
Blindness
Chromatic Orb
Friends
Grease
Magic Missile

Solo:
Blindness
Chromatic Orb
Friends
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil

Grease makes a rather useful level 1 spell for area incapacitation. And there wasn't too many bad things to say about it, comparing it with other level 1 spells.

[ August 05, 2007, 02:19: Message edited by: syuusaru ]

 

I still don't see the point of 'Friends'. I've never noticed a significant reduction in the prices.

 

I always want to cast more than 3/rest though . I've kind of been arguing it from a sorcerer perspective though, as a mage it's useless (what happens if your in the middle of a battle and have nothing but identify left...?) but as a sorcerer there's often spells left at the end of the day and you can use em to identify all the items you have before selling (which I reckon would save you a hell of a lot more money than friends)

Yeah, it's a pretty bad spell, but so are all the other lvl 1 spells that aren't MM (and Identify imho).

 

I think one could make a strong argument for picking Identify. However, I can usually get by without it due to the Glasses of Ident, the Identify scrolls which litter the game, and the high lore.

Still, it's nice not to have to bend over backwards in order to identify stuff. The identify spell pick would probably be more appropriate for a party sorc than a solo sorc.

When it comes to the crunch, it comes down to personal preference, and how often you plan to employ the spell.

I still think Friends sucks. Oh well.

 

Well there certainly isn't a time limit to the game. How many identifies would you possibly need? I usually end up having a character with a rather high Lore, so the only things I DO need to identify are very rare equips, that's where the glasses come in. And if you're in need of identifying THAT much, there are another pair of glasses that are obtainable.


As for Friends, 25 CHA gives better prices than 18 CHA. Doesn't take up inventory space either. There's not many other spells in this level worth taking anyway. The prices DO make a difference when dealing with expensive items. Especially useful early on when you have little gold.

 

Actually there is Limited Wish who can give you the glasses too.

And 2 mages can each get a pair of glasses that way. At least that's what I have experienced.

 

The limited wish way is done through the 1 time wish of "I wish to see all as it really is" (or something to that effect). Because it's a one time wish the entire party can only cast it once (rather than each caster once). Hence in the game it is only possible to get a total of 2 pairs of glasses (and ID 6 items per day). This is usually enough, however I tend not to rest that much and often like to have a few more up my sleeve courtesy of my sorcerer (If I played a mage I wouldn't bother memorizing it, but as a sorcerer I'm not missing out on anything if I were to cast it at rest).

 

I honestly don't think we'll come to a consensus regarding Friends/Identify/Chromatic Orb. As I said earlier, it depends on personal preference and playing style. A solo sorc would probably have less use for Friends and Identify (as money isn't a problem) than a party sorc.

By the way, why isn't Spook mentioned on the recommended Lvl 1 spell picks?

 

Well the duration for Spook isn't that long, and you've have to go and chase it. I'd rather use Blindness instead and kill it.

 

Spook has a -6 save penalty when it's capped. It also disrupts enemy scripts (eg. dragons can't use wing buffets).

 

I am aware of the one-time wishes, but that one, well I got it twice, hence Aerie and Imoen got a pair of glasses each.

Same with the experience wish and the wish for more wealth.

 

Spook causes some kind of fear effect doesn't it? Aren't dragons immune to that sort of stuff?

 

Do you have the game? Try it out on Firkaag. I don't have the game on hand to verify my foggy memory.

 

lucky - I couldn't get it to work with my current game (BGII+ToB+patch+baldurdash+IA), maybe it was fixed or something.

 

Except of IA I have the same installed.

But it sounds like a bug anyway since it is one-time wishes. But it is a nice bug then.

On the other hand, more wealth, exp or the glasses of identification is perhaps one-time wishes for the particular mage who cast it? I don't know.

 

What would happen if different people talked to a djinn summoned by the same caster? Would that = 6 times you could use the same one-time wish?

 

I'm always amused that people rate the Glasses of ID so high. You have to identify 22 items with them before you come out ahead, and that's if you don't use the Shadow Thief fence, who identifies for 75 gold. I don't know about you, but early in the game I have a lot better uses for 2200 gold than the Glasses. And dedicating one first level spell slot to Identify doesn't seem very burdensome either.

A bit more on topic, I think Spook doesn't make the recommended spell list since the last thing I want my enemies to do is run away

 

Disagree completely. 2200 is a bit much at the start of the game, but it's absolute chump change by the time you hit chapter 3. I consider the glasses a great investment, because it's not just "dedicating one first level spell slot to Identify," it's 3. I think of it as 3 free spell slots per day that can now be taken up by the infinitely more useful Magic Missile (which I use like candy).

It's also a convenience factor, too. I want to identify my items immediately when I find them, as usually I put them to use. 2200 is easily worth not having to make constant trips to stores (or especially going clear out of your way to the Shadow Thief fence) whenever I want something identified. That's valuable orc-killin' time I've wasted walking for a mundane task, and the game is full of enough walking as it is. If there were a magic item that cast Identify 5 times a day for 10,000gp, I'd buy it in a heartbeat for the same reason. Convenience is far more valuable than the gold.

 

If you're going to argue convenience, wouldn't that be an argument for picking Identify as a first level spell?