JUPP with Level 40 mod?

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Jukka,

I am curious, how would you adjust the JUPP parties if you were using the level 40 mod? It does not have to involve a lot of thought, just what you would do off the top of your head.

Thanks,
Khemsa

 

Pretty much nothing changes with the Level 40 mod, since getting to above 30 is just nigh impossible without extensive squatting or several playthroughs with the same party members via Import/Export.

I guess a point could be made for a Human Bard(11)/Sorcerer(20), although its major downfall of trying to up two caster classes simultaneously still remains. You're pretty much just a plain sorcerer for a VERY long time still.

If several playthroughs is assumed, the Dreadmaster and Paladin quest bonuses keep on piling up, so at least WIS-based protector characters become easier to design since you can effectively boost both DEX and WIS.

 

Thanks for your answer.

I still do not understand why you have dropped level squatting and gone from a four to six member party. The power of four and squatting are too important to surrender.

I have found that agressive squatting, combined with the extra experience generated by Tactics4IWD2 make reaching level 40 quite doable.

 

Well, I dropped squatting because, quite frankly, it's abusing an oversight made by the developers. Thus advocating for it heavily would make the guide lose some readers due to "cheesiness", which would be a shame considering a whole lot of the other advice isn't balls-to-the-walls powergaming to begin with.

I still mention squatting in the guide, quite extensively at that. Just that I don't make any ASSUMPTION of using it to promote parties that, frankly, suck below level 30 or so. Any party can be made stronger by squatting, but taking a party BASED on it is in no way representative for "best" parties available if one chooses to not use it. "Cover most bases", as they say.

 

I can understand making the guide for the "everyman," but I would imagine that most people who are interested in the JUPP would not be turned off by level squatting -- they probably live by it.

Anyway, I do disagree with you about the viability of the JUPP parties. While your comment about suckiness below level 30 probably applies to the melee party, the old arcane party was quite playable. The decoy (Rg1/Monk1/Dreadmaster1/IllusionistX) was easily playable at any level. The diplomat/blaster (SorcererX) was also usable at any level. The only tricky character was the Cleric/Druid, but since his most important spell is Barkskin, that comes online fairly early.

I feel wierd arguing with the author about which of his creations is his best, but there it is. Thanks for your responses. I will stick with the older JUPP arcane party (slightly modified for slightly better melee capability. On the other hand, the additions you made to the JUPP in the latest version, other than the parties, are excellent.

Thank you for all your hard work. You have made IWD2 much more enjoyable for me and I appreciate it.

 

This is EXACTLY the reason why I felt that learning people to do their own "best" parties -- instead of pushing for the ones I personally like the most -- needed a chapter of its own. Once you nail down the basics, there's quite a bit of wiggle room remaining for variation.

Going back to your original question: Since squatting isn't just either-or question, you could use it as a settings knob for cheesiness. Alter it lightly, and you'll mostly see light alterations in the options available to your parties. (Say, reaching level 18 for Sorcerer by the end of Normal.) Twist and turn it like a hurricane and all sorts of exotic build options open up. (Say hello to 40+ percent exp penalties at level 30+, dual caster classes, multiple classes at levels beyond 3...)

And don't get me wrong, I *really* appreciate the input. You're just the only one so far strongly advocating for the more extreme stuff in the guide. All I've been hearing so far (before the final updates) was that why would I choose to BASE my parties on an obvious loophole exploit?