Spell Discussions: Level 3

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Fire Elementals are always worth summoning. Although you might want to keep a Staff of Fire around, just incase they turn .

 

Well there you go, you gotta add more things to it cover up its holes. That's a disadvantage in itself. Have fun waiting 3 rounds every time you summon one, and once you get to 5, a death spell comes along.

 

Jeesh. By the way you're acting, you'd think we were arguing about whether we should attempt to genocide the Jews.

 

I would ordinarily agree, but put 3 flame arrows in a sequencer for an insta chunk spell.

At level 15 and above its something like 45d6, quite insane.

 

Flame Arrow is also just convinient - you can skull trap of fireball an enemy already engaged in melee with your fighters.

I'd only cast it from a druid or the staff for this reason, but otherwise its a pretty awesome spell- they're tough, last a while and can even do a bit of damage. (practically) All summoning spells are effected by Death Spell, that is expected.

 

Here are some of my observations from my experience regarding what people have said and asked in this discussion: (I just got done soloing as a dual classed thief/mage)

Detect Illusion- good for dispelling invisibility and project image. My character's detect illusion ability from being a thief never seemed to work. If this is not a passive ability and I actually have to do something to activate it, I'd like to know.

Skull Trap- someone mentioned that their character(s) were the only ones to trigger the trap and that the enemy never would. In my experience this has not been the case. Friend and foe alike get nuked by this baby.

Haste- IRC, the haste spell from Arbane's Shortword does not end in fatigue for the person whom it is cast upon.

Melf's Minute Meteors- great for cutting through MR and damaging enemies that are otherwise immune to your attacks. Demon Knights and so forth.

Dispel Magic- great spell, just make sure that your foe does not have spell turning, otherwise you just wiped out your own protections.

Hold Person- let your Clerics take this one. Most 2nd level cleric spells suck, anyway, so what else are they going to take?

Lightning Bolt- I've gotten a bad guy between me and a wall while I had the cloak of reflection equipped and let loose a bolt. It doesn't happen like you hope it would. Generally, the bolt hits them once, bounces off the wall at an angle and goes away not to hit either of you again. Or, it bounces back and might hit them again and hit you but it passes on and you get a message saying that the spell was ineffective against you. (Granted, I might have a mod installed that nerfs the cloak and I didn't realize it. If that is the case, I shake my fist at the heavens.)

Non-Detection- The Cloak of Non-Detection didn't seem to work so why would I try this spell? If I am correct, the cloak/spell should protect you from having your invisibility dispelled, is that correct?

Protection From Normal Missiles- good from those who have played through the game and bunch of times and know from hindsight that the incoming projectiles are in fact not magical. Good for Irenicus' dungeon and the like.

Vampiric Touch- "You've got the touch! You've got the POWER!!" This can harm liches, right? I swear I used this against a lich (one of the ones guarding Kangaxx's body parts) when I was desperate for something to damage him.

That's about all I got. I reserve the right to be wrong on some of this, but not all. Discuss.

[ August 11, 2007, 00:40: Message edited by: Giles Barskins ]

 

It functions via the Detect Traps button, but its range is damn near point-blank. Handy for a flanking thief taking out the back row's Mirror Image or Mislead or whatever, but less so for back row characters like the M/T that shouldn't be that near the enemy.

TIP: Attacking disrupts your detecting, but detecting doesn't disrupt your attacking, so attack something and *then* turn on the detection for double duty.

[ August 11, 2007, 00:45: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

 

Non-detection works fine for me. I put on the cloak, hide in shadows or cast invisibility, and then walk through some hostile mages. They cast true sight to try to find me, but no cigar. Then I backstab

Don't know why it wouldn't work for you - maybe the order of using invisible and nondetection matters?

 

It's the waiting 3 rounds and having a chance of the Elemental turning on you that makes it annoying to use. Hence I avoid using those elementals altogether in the mage book.


Like I said, Skull Trap will always do the same or more damage than Flame Arrow. At level 15, 45d6 applies for Skull Trap too. Except it's magic and not mainly fire oriented. At level 17, it becomes 51d6, while Flame Arrow is still at 45d6. This is assuming you're loading them up in sequencers as you have. Now if you've casted Haste on your party, there shouldn't be a problem with running away before the detonation.


A lich is immune to all spells level 5 and lower. I don't think Vampiric Touch is any exception. but who knows. I'd assume if Breach doesn't work, why would something even lower work?


Forgot to genocide me some jews hehehehe

[ August 11, 2007, 04:19: Message edited by: syuusaru ]

 

In the vanilla game it probably wont do any damage to the lich (as it does not bypass magic resistance and most liches are immune to lvl 3 spells), but I think it will still heal you (there's a fix/tweak for this in the ToB mod Improved Anvil).

@syuusaru - but the Flame arrow can be used 1/2 way through a battle when your fighters are already engaged with the enemy. It wont turn or kill your summons either.

Agree 100%, its definitely a job for a druid or the staff (where you don't have to wait the 3 rounds). Having said that there are a few times early on where its more than worth the cast from a scroll - It's not used frequently enough to memorise though.

 

syuu:

The relatively long casting time isn't a problem, as I cast this spell before battles. The elemental turning is a pain in the ass, but I usually summon in a room (so that I can run and close the door), or keep a staff of fire equipped.

And again, I know that there are strings attached (as you are naturally going to point out), but IMHO is more than balances out. A summon which is immune to fire, approx. 90hp, hits as 4+ enchanted, has an awesome THAC0, is immune to normal weapons, whose extra fire damage penetrates Stoneskin, and who sticks around for a long time.

Well worth the pain in the ass.

 

There's only one place I tend to summon a Fire Elemental with a mage. That's during the Unseeing Eye quest, after you've taken out the undead village and pass into the beholder lair. In the 1st room, there is a scroll of summon Fire Elemental - so I summon it, and if it doesn''t turn, send it ahead to get the Gauth's attention

 

@ Giles Barskins

The cloak of Non-Detection works only if the character using it is under stealth (Thieves, Rangers and Monks).

It will not work with invisibility from spells/potions/items, but there are 2 exceptions: it would make non-detectable anyone with invisibility from the Rings of Air Control and from the SotMagi as well (probably a bug).

The spell Non-Detection is different.
It gives immunity to Divination spells, again only for characters who use stealth (or the rings of Air Control/SotM), but ONLY for one round, since then the spell gets "consumed".

For example instant Divination spell like Detect Invisibility or Oracle will remove the Non-Detection spell, protecting the invisibility of your character, but True Sight/Seeing will reveal him in the second round.

 

Clairvoyance (D)
I agree, a silly spell.

Detect Illusion (D)
Look above

Dire Charm (Enc)
Look above

Dispel Magic (Abj)
The Dispel Magic spell is good to have. Yet it removes all of your buffs, and is impossible to cast it in heavy melee properly. I'd say, for a solo sorcerer - Remove Magic.

Fireball (Evo)
The spell is really inferior to Skull trap. And if you have G3 Fixpack installed, the range of the Skull Trap gets normal, so Fireball is out of question. Good only in Irenicus' dungeon.

Flame Arrow (C)
The spell is good for a Bard of any kind. Because of the more arrows. I think a bard can have 5 arrows in SoA xp capped.

Ghost Armor (C)
yep, Spirit armor is the spell...

Haste (Alt)
-This is a must-have.

Hold Person (Enc)
Save-or-else...a useless spell

Hold Undead (N)
This spell can be used on vampires&the like, yet it is a save-or-else spell. Yet, it may work, and after that killing a vampire is pretty easy.

Invisibility 10' radius (I)
The spell is great for a party. And the scrolls in SoA are very rare. So for a mage - a must-have pick on creation. For a solo-sorcerer - no. For a party sorcerer - yes.

Lightning Bolt (Evo)
The spell has its uses. Yet it is no for a solo-sorcerer.

Melf's Minute Meteors (Evo/Alt)
This spell is great. First, the meteors are +6 weapon(in the spell description is written +5 which is not correct), so they can hit an enemy through Absolute Immunity(like Jon irenicus). Second, each meteor carries fire damage Evocation spell lvl 3. In short, this can help rid quickly of enemy's Spell Deflection/Turning/trap spells. 10 meteors hitting and even a Spell trap is down.
The drawback for a solo sorcerer is called Staff of the Magi. While the last meteor is cast, all of the nice bonuses of the SoTM are lost.
This spell is a must-have for a solo sorcerer, yet should be used with caution.

Minor Spell Deflection (Abj)
The spell has its uses early in the game, in a party, when there aren't simply enough spell deflection/turning scrolls for every spellcaster in the party. The Minor Spell deflection can absorb up to 7th level spell so it is far better than the Minor Spell Turning.

Monster Summoning I (C)
-Also pretty weak, later becomes useless.

Non-detection (Abj)
-There's a cloak with this effect available early on. Either way, I can't think of many times that'd I would actually use this.

Protection from Cold (Abj)
This spell is important. Yet a no-no for a solo sorcerer. But a spell scroll is important to keep, since it will be often cast by a Simulacrum on the protagonist.

Protection from Fire (Abj)
Look above. Despite of the spell descriptions, protection from Fire and Cold grant 100% resistance to any form of fire/cold attack, whether magical or non-magical.

Protection from Normal Missiles (Abj)
-I think this is pretty useless.

Remove Magic (Abj)
The far-better version of Dispel Magic. A must have. Scrolls of Dispel Magic are scattered throughout, while those of Remove magic are very rare. Anyone asked himself why?

Skull Trap (N)
-MUST HAVE!
The spell is great not only in combat, but also in setting enormous traps and stuffing 3 of these in a spell sequencer will clear every enemy in a single blast. Yet, a protection is needed otherwise you PC will get blasted away too. The Protection from Magic energy(6th level spell) solves this problem.

Slow (Alt)
The spell seems good, yet I don't have a place for it.

Spell Thrust (Abj)
A nice spell to lower down an enemy's Spell Shield. Useful vs Irenicus.

Vampiric Touch (N)
The spell is a must-have for a solo sorcerer. The additional HP are never useless. And, the spell deals Magical damage, and very few enemies are immune to that.

My picks for a solo-sorcerer:

Haste-Skull Trap-Remove Magic-Melf's Minute Meteors-Vampiric Touch

 

I would memorise several Slow (ST -4), only one Haste (fatigue).

Group Invisibility is very useful (Jan knows this rare spell). It allows for some nice tricks, for example against beholders.

Having 1 fireball is always useful to get rid of annoying kobold commandos, spiders, etc, but after level 10, the damage stalls. I never use skull trap, because it's supposed to be a trap.
Lightning Bolt is too dangerous, and the cloak of Reflection can be saturated and fail you.

I found that protection from "normal" missiles actually works against magic missiles, since then I try to have one memorised.

The manual states:
"By means of this spell, the wizard bestows total invulnerability to hurled and projected missiles such as arrows, axes, bolts, javelins, small stones,
and spears. Note, however, that this spell does not provide protection from such magical attacks as Fireballs, Lightning Bolts, or Magic Missiles."
A bit ambiguous, isn't it?

Like saros says, protection from fire grants 100% protection. But I prefer to have a cleric memorise this; the same for Hold.

Melf's Minute Meteors: to me, they're cheesy.

I leave Dispel Magic for Clerics, who progress faster (you want a high level in BG2), but Remove Magic is a must.

I confess I never use Hold Undead, but should.

The most important L3 spell is Slow.

 

Well, it depends on what mods are you using. In my installation, Protection from Normal Missiles grants immunity ONLY to normal missiles. On the other hand, protection from Magical Weapons grants immutity to enchanted projectiles too.
The clerical spell Protection from Fire grants protection for 3+1 round/level. The mage spell prot from Fire grants protection for 1 turn/level of the caster. So the mage spell is far better since it lasts 9-10 times longer.
Haste is good if memorized several times, because it can be cast on summons, and, despite fatigue, if your group consist mainly of casters, then this is a minor drawback.

 

Specifically, protection from normal missiles worked against Tarnor's gang in the sewers (Throwing Axe +2). But that wouldn't surprise me that it depends on the version.

[EDIT 24/11: I've just read that it is a bug fixed in the fixpack, so I remove the spell from the list!]


The description for Protection from fire says it lasts 1 turn by level, but it also says the spell covers 50% damage for Mages. The pdf manual doesn't say the same thing for both points, so maybe one should check what happens in the game. Anyway, the cleric duration is enough for tough battles.

I never thought about casting Haste on summons. If you do that, of course, you would memorise more Haste. But every party needs some fighters, so fatigue is important.

 

Once more:

The clerical or wizard spell Protection from Fire grants 100% resistance to normal AND magical fire no matter what is written in the spell description.

Same is true for the mage spell Protection from Cold - grants 100% resistance to normal and magical cold.

 

Mandatory:

• Skull Trap: Best damage dealing spell until Abi-Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting - and that says a lot. Okay, nukes a relatively small area, but nothing is perfect. Can be used to set traps.
• Haste: Allows you to outrun the enemies and makes summons and party members alike considerably more dangerous - convenient and powerful. Make use of Haste a lot regardless of playing solo or with a party.

Useful:

• Dispel Magic: Dispels positive and negative effects on enemies and party members alike, will be useful from BG1 to TOB. When playing with a large party, you're mage won't level up quickly - and so your DM will not be guaranteed to work. Leave the main dispelling to your clerics (or inquisitors), but keeping a single DM memorized is probably a wise decision.
• Melf's Minute Meteors: Great against enemies with magic resistance and spellcasters. A must for solo mages and still very useful for party spellcasters.
• Remove Magic: The aggressive variant of Dispel Magic, targets enemies only. Get it when you solo, otherwise pick Dispel Magic.
• Slow: Makes your foes slower, more vulnerable and less dangerous. Pretty reliable due to the -4 saving throw penalty. Great spell, when you have a party with a lot of melee fighters, otherwise not that important.
• Vampiric Touch: Interesting way to gain some bonus hit points temporarily. It may be a touch spell, but you don't need to cast it on actual foes: It will work on squirrels, doors, chests or even on yourself (Pretty absurd!). The spell description claims that the maximum drain for a level-12-caster should range from 6 to 36, but it did always around 30 damage for me. Get VT as Bhaalspawn power in case you play a pure mage or sorcerer.

Semi-useful:

• Dire Charm: Identical to Charm Person without the save bonus. I dislike most save-or-else spells, but it has its uses in heavily modded games.
• Fireball: Easier to control than Skull Trap and much more suited for sneaky off-screen bombardement, but caps at meager 10D6 damage. Furthermore, fire resistance is pretty common. Use it until Skull Trap gets more damaging than Fireball.
• Flame Arrow: Deals decent, party friendly damage to a single target, but still clearly inferior to Skull Trap. Needs to be used in a sequencer to be worthwhile.
• Invisibility 10' Radius: Usually one invisible scout is enough, but in some fights this spell can offer interesting tactical possibilities.
• Lightning Bolt: This spell has the potential to do absurd amounts of damage, but it's hard to control and downright dangerous for the caster and his party. Personally, I lack the crazy reflecting skills to make decent use of LB, but if you have them, go for it.
• Protection from Fire: Grants (contrary to the spell describtion) 100% fire resistance. Handy in some situations, but I don't see great potential: For example even with PfF your casting will still get interrupted in an Incendiary Cloud and protected summons will still turn hostile when hit by your fireballs in an unmodded game (I think the gMinion-mod changes this.).

Avoid like the plague:

• Clairvoyance: As if we hadn't seen the maps before...
• Detect Illusion: Gets rid off invisibility, mirror image, reflected image and non-detection. Meager effect for a level 3 spell, totally redundant when you get True Sight.
• Ghost Armor: Lowering of the armor class alone isn't that useful, not even for a Fighter/Mage.
• Hold Person: Better effect, but much smaller radius and much less reliable than Slow. Take Slow or even Dire Charm instead and let your clerics cast HP.
• Hold Undead: Would be at least somewhat viable in a handful of situations if it had a (major) save penalty.
• Minor Spell Deflection: Use Improved Invisibility instead for much better results.
• Monster Summoning I: Any cannon fodder between the mage and the enemy is useful, but go for Spider Spawn instead when you need cheap summons.
• Non-Detection: Get the Cloak of Non-Detection if you need this effect (Contrary to what has been said before, the CoND did protect invisibility in my game.).
• Protection from Cold: Cold attacks are scarce. Skip.
• Protection from Normal Missiles: Stoneskin and Mirror Image are absolutely enough to protect against normal missiles.
• Spell Thrust: Right, cheapest way to remove Spell Shield, but still far from half-decent.

Solo Sorcerer picks: Melf's Minute Meteors - Skull Trap - Haste - Remove Magic - Vampiric Touch

Party Sorcerer picks: Haste - Melf's Minute Meteors - Slow - Skull Trap - Dispel Magic

[ October 28, 2007, 15:09: Message edited by: Ascendency-Down ]

 

Ascendency:

LIES! ALL LIES!