BG1Tutu Class Selection

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I’m planning for a BG1 playthrough with Tutu, and I’m trying to decide on my class. At this point I’m unsure of whether or not I’m going to continue playing through BG2 and ToB, mostly because of the time investment. The last time I played through BG2/ToB however, I played a Kensai, and romanced Aerie. So I’m looking for a different experience this time around. If I do end up playing BG2 I’m going to romance Viconia, as I’ve never even had her in my party before. I’d like to avoid having either Edwin or Aerie in my party whatsoever, as I find them both rather annoying. So that seems to dictate that I should play a Mage of some sort, and the primary Mage of the group to boot.

I’m thinking I’ll either go Conjurer or Swashbuckler/Mage. I like Conjurer because if I’m going to be the primary mage I need to reach the appropriate spell levels for their corresponding encounters on time. On the other hand I’ve never really been a fan of pure glass cannon spellcasters, so having the Swashbuckler levels could make for a more versatile and interesting character. Does anyone know how the Swashbuckler kit performs in Tutu? Is it underpowered or overpowered at all?

Of course, if I only play BG1, then the majority of my experience will be spent as a Swashbuckler (assuming I dual to Mage at level 9), and at that point there’s really no sense in going Mage. In IWD2 it’s possible to have a Rogue 1/Wizard X that functions both as the party’s primary mage and thief. I wish there was a way to do something similar for Tutu.

 

3rd Ed rules were designed partly to remedy the overpoweredness of multiclass characters.. but instead ended up with a system that allows cherry-picking the best abilities with a simple mix-in level.

Swashy in BG1 should be rather beefy and entertaining to play - it's not like a mage is at its peak power at such low levels yet. And you'll get there in no time flat when you switch over in BG2, just by scribing all the scrolls.

 

Swashy in BG1 in very fun to play; thief with serious melee ability and the benefits start racking up in relatively low levels. Lack of backstab isn't a huge factor, although it would be sweet (and overpowered). Not the primary fighter, but an archer/light melee kind of character. Dual-wielding is mandatory

If you decide to play BG2, you might want to dual your swashy at level 10 instead of 9 - you'll get AC and hit/damage bonus, but with somewhat longer transition period. But with some scroll scribing, it's not a huge issue.

I'm not totally sure if a Swashbuckler 5 / Mage has the skills to clear all the locks and traps in Tutu, but it's probably very close. This would probably mean giving up on stealth and pick pocketing, but you're not backstabbing anyways. After dualing some basilisk/sirine hunting will bring the thief abilities back quick, with most of the game still remaining.

 

Even a swashbuckler3/mage should be able to clear the locks and traps in tutu. A swashbuckler5/mage can handle them better than Imoen in BG2.

 

Imoen makes an awesome swashbuckler/mage. Get her with 10 levels of swashbuckler and she's a really great character (don't neglect Detect Illusion).

 

I'm concerned that the Swashbuckler would feel a bit too similar to the Kensai, what with both of them being dual wielding, light melee damage dealers . But they do indeed sound fun.

I'd also like to clarify what exactly is being gained (aside from the Thief skills, obviously) by taking all of these Swashbuckler levels (especially 10, which I've also seen recommended in guides elsewhere), and how that compares to a pure Mage kit down the line. I've read about the elven chain armor, and of course there's the additional HP and weapon selection, but is that really worth giving up 10 Mage levels by the end of BG2? Also, does that additional AC/HP surpass the Mage’s natural protective spells such as Spirit Armor and Stoneskin (which relies on the caster’s level being high enough for them to be sufficiently powerful at a given point in the game).

There’s no question that the Swashbuckler levels augment the Mage’s versatility and survivability, the question is if the loss in spell progression (and the corresponding versatility and survivability gained from those spells) is worth the trade off.

 

You only give up one mage level for 10 levels of thief or 9 levels of fighter. Look at the experience tables. Once you get beyond nine to eleven levels the xp's to level become constant.

Mage: Levels 1-11 need a total of 375,000 xp -- it take 375,000 xp for each level above 11.
Thief: Levels 1-11 need a total of 220,000 xp -- it take 220,000 xp for each level above 11.
Cleric: Levels 1-9 need a total of 225,000 xp -- it take 225,000 xp for each level above 9.
Fighter: Levels 1-9 need a total of 250,000 xp -- it take 250,000 xp for each level above 9.
Ranger: Levels 1-9 need a total of 300,000 xp -- it take 300,000 xp for each level above 9.
Druid: This one is strange, but it has the fastest level progression from 6th through 12th levels, but really slows down. Makes for a great second class since you regain your abilities quickly (provided you stayed under 13th level with your first class).

 

Wow. Ok, this is an area of AD&D that I was completely ignorant of. So apparently, when you dual class, your character effectively starts over at Level 1, rather than (in this example) Level 11. But not just in terms of XP, because those first 10 Levels where the Mage is playing catch-up to the Thief levels don't contribute to the XP cap in terms of levels... so this is sort of... a loop hole that allows a character to essentially have 30 levels by the end of BG2 as opposed to 20? Am I understanding this correclty? Or at all?

Now I'm inclined to go in the opposite direction, and ask why anyone would take a pure Mage/kit over a Fighter or Thief dualed to Mage .

 

I've got a thief/mage in my current party playing through SoA. I dual-classed him at lvl6 thief, and he has plenty lock-picking and trap-finding ability, enough to get through the whole game. He also has a 3x backstab multi, uses a bow but also dual wields a shortsword and longsword. His spell progression hasn't been compromised too badly either. He's good in a fight when needed. A valuable party member...

 

Definitely not my specialty either, but if I have understood correctly the level cap in BG2 isn't exactly a level cap - it's a xp cap. The xp gained as a swashbuckler are added to your mage xp when counting your "total" xp. But here's the trick: getting 10 levels at swashbuckler requires only 220,000 xp, meaning that you could still get the maximum 17 mage levels in BG2. A pure mage would reach that same level 17, since the xp cap in SoA is 2,950,000 xp and 3,000,000 is needed for level 18.

So if you end up at the same mage level, why take a pure mage (above role playing reasons)? A specialist mage gets bonus spells, +1 spell slot per level. A wider selection or larger amount is always good . A melee-oriented dual-class mage has to use some of those (fewer) spell slots to protective spells in order to survive in combat, meaning that a specialist has way more versatile spell selection. This could make a big difference if there's only one arcane caster in the group.

 

I was under the impression that dual classsed mages also gained +1 spell slot per level.

At least, I read as much in the Mage section of this class guide.

As far as the roleplaying aspect goes, I hadn't put my finger on it, but really that is a major hurdle for me in going dual classed Mage over specialist. In IWD2 it was easy for me to construct a background around a Level 1 Rogue with weapon proficiency in crossbows becoming a Wizard. However, for an acrobat/swordsman the transition is a bit less believable to me . They do both happen to be two of my all time favorite archetypes, it's just the combo I'm having trouble getting around. Perhaps it is a worthy price to pay to not have to watch my Mage walk around with a sling for 100 hours .

 

The FAQ indeed claims that dual classed mages get bonus spells. To my knowledge, it isn't true. At least I haven't noticed this .

I see no problem in this dual-class combination RP-wise. Maybe you're leaving the wit out from the swashbucklers "part acrobat, part swordsman, and part wit ". For me this combo is a thievish adventurer that learns to use magic to get more of what he wants - not necessarily hiding in the background, but casting stoneskin (in the unlikely situation that his quickness should momentarily fail) and then charging into battle. When I played an evil Swashbuckler/Mage, this picture (by Todd Lockwood) defined my idea of the character perfectly.

 

I guess you'll have more fun playing a sorcerer. You'll have more spells available and spontaneous casting is great.

 

Under the SoA exp cap, the various dual-classes really shine as you get anywhere between 9 to 13 levels "for free" by metagaming around the exp cap.

ToB rebalances the issue with high-level abilities. Dual-classed characters will only ever get to use their HLAs from the latter class, whereas multiclasses get HLAs from both (or all three). Depending on the class combo, it's not always as clear-cut as to which one is better, and the dualclasses requiring extensive transition periods will really feel crippled for a long time.