Update to JUPP

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ah ok thank you for that bit of info.

 

Hi all! I'm new to this forum but not new to IWD2. I'm admiring the work you put into cracking the game and have used your guides millions of times. I salute you for that reason alone!

I'm quoting the list above with a favor to ask: can someone post the full list of those 16 weapons, that can drop instead of Massive Greataxe of Flame? (OK, so there is only 11 and that list is complete) I'm on the hunt for it, started on normal today with Saablik Tan fight. I reloaded 30+ times and decided to go forward only if the outcome satisfied me.

I noticed that Wanmok was indeed the best in terms of random drops, so I concentrated on him. Those weapons from the list above were nowhere to be seen... I was able to get other sweet drops like: Bow with +4 CON bonus, Club +5 with 3d6 bludgeoning damage and some other interesting weapons. I decided to stop after I found an axe, which looks like this (don't know the english name for it):

1d8 + 1
+5 enchantment
50% chance for 1d6 fire
30% for 2d6
15% for 3d6
5% for 5d6 fire

Whoa! Something I can actually use as a consolation for not finding the Greataxe. I've got the Spirit of flame feat, so I decided to move forward from then on.

I also found Every God's Ring of Saablik and Winter Ring of Wanmok, so both are capable of dropping Tymora's Loop. Those monks at Severed Hand can definitely drop it - I found one on my very first playthrough on normal not knowing at that time how good it was After that I found none. This time I will concentrate more on reloading - not to find it specifically but at least to get a drop I will be satisfied with. Like that axe above. Maybe I will keep you informed how it goes if anyone is interested. It's nice to know that IWD2 is not dead

Ok, I found the Random Loot tables, so that should answer my question

 

Hi,

I know it has been a while since anyone posted here, but i am taking a chance .

I have been a long time fan of IWDII and every time i go on a vacation outside the country i re install it on my laptop to play it again.

This time, i was trying your guide (the JUPP 2 ) and its look AWESOME !!! I had a question tough, In the dynamic xp section, you list the diffenrent zones and the exp you get in each of them, and you also list where you add the different character. But it seems that that party is formed of 2 DG, 1 Aasima, 1 human and 2 drow. When I checked your "ultimate party" the races dont seem to match.

So i was wondering if I should change the races to the one in the ultimate party or if i should adapt the ultimate party to the races in the dynamic xp section. Also, my guess is that the first 2 you add are the tank(5.1) and main Sorc(5.4) then the decoy(5.2) and the cleric(5.6), and finally the diplomat(5.3) and the second bombardier(5.5). One more thing, is the addition of the diplomat that late not a risk of missing dialog options ?

Also, you mention the aggro concept, but is there anything specific for getting aggro other then just running the tank/decoy first ? Or is there ability that generate more aggro then others ?

Could you tell me if am right, and what would you suggest.

Thank you very much, am a huge fan !!


EDIT: I wrote it in a hurry, so I clarified it.

 

Thanks for the comments!

The dynamic exp party is neither of the example parties just as you noticed. It was just to show how you could trade a few levels between characters by the end of Normal mode if you wanted to.

If you're to add more people along the way, you need at least a tank to begin with. Diplomat is a decent second runner-up, but there's not many quests even in Prologue you can't complete with maximum exp gain even without one so it's not strictly mandatory. And unless neither the tank nor diplomat carry cleric (or druid) levels, that'd be the third. After that it matters much less.

Aggro concept in IWD2 is grossly simplified. Monsters lock on to the first target they see and only ever switch targets if they have some sort of a preference in targets. For example, the Fallen Bladesingers always go after your casters, no matter how you try to tank them. Unless your tank happens to be a caster... *hint hint nudge nudge*

 

i was able to force 12 tymora's loops from reloads in a single normal playthrough (sadly the game became too easy even with tactics mod). however, i have never found that ungodly powerful axe even though many of the enemies that drop tymoras can drop that axe as well.

 

Try dual-wielding the Bastard Sword of Heroism with Know Thy Family (constant effect: Executioner's Eyes to add 4 to critical threat range) with dual Tymora's and the Lucky Knucky in a party with six level 5+ bards.

90% chance to crit for over 100 damage.
HoF becomes easier than normal.

 

I disabled the bastard sword component of that mod so no uber b-swords for me plus i dont think i ever got the heroism sword.
I was able to achieve something similar using mordenkainen's sword, power attack, the monk bracers that gave one added attack/round, and some buff spells. it was the only thing that hurt the huge AC bosses. 70 damage crits very consistently at very high BAB.

 

Yeah, I remember testing M's sword in my endurance powergaming party and being disappointed at that damage. When your sorcs have 30STR and with six bard songs, Hope, Aid, etc, have another +10 to damage, they're just better off with Big Death/Big Black Flying Death.
If the sword had conferred the strength bonus it would've been uber, but as it stood the x3 crit of the axes with all those bonuses put them in front.

 

The selling point of MS is mainly the huge BAB it provides. the damage is very poor but decent after buffs and feats. a large portion of my feats were geared towards MS- heretic's bane, critical strike, and power attack for example. without this single spell i wouldn't have been able to finish with a mostly solo sorcerer in tactics mode. there wasn't a more rewarding moment than being able to crit down saablic tan before he could cast a single spell ( sadly i had to do this for an hour until the bastard gave me a tymora's loop).

I have been thinking of doing a new iwd2 run (my 4th) with a party consisting of a human sorc, a banite DG , and a human bard/druid support as per JUPP, this time with absolutely no muling or squatting but im terrified of getting my rear handed to me on a silver platter vs some of the more difficult fights such as will of wisp and xvim due to not have a ridiculously over leveled sorc. i also feel like the game would be much less "fun" without the ability to SoH and wail my enemies into the ground by the start of chapter 3 but it might be too easy with the same.

more on this incredible timesink later.

 

Question for HoF players

I have tried Hof mode previously but never got into it. But I am thinking of trying it out now to the end. Sick of BG2 right now, so I'm going to switch games again.

I have been reading Sir Rechet's Jukka guide on SP and was wondering about AC. It seems to me that alot of the higher AC builds require a LOT of buffing. Knowing that the cretures are that much tougher in HoF, is the AI still dumb enough not to dispel your protections like the vanilla game? If so, can't you just buff your way through it?

 

AI is the same, so yes.

Your enemies have multiple attacks/rd, do triple damage, and have incredible AB. Stoneskin and Mirror image go in seconds if you don't have enough AC to make the enemy miss.
Iron Body should work, though. Until you come up against Slayer Knights. (I don't know what else has +3 or greater weapons. Most enemies in the game don't seem to be able to overcome a Monk's 20/+1 DR)

 

Warning: Jupp overload

continued from my last post:


From what I’ve gathered from my JUPP bible, the base of JUPP revolves around a protector with the idea that this character will draw aggression and allow your party to do whatever you want.

From JUPP He comes in 2 variations:
A “Tank version” DG illusionist utilizing tensor’s. (Magical based armor and shield) -
Deep Gnome Rogue(2),Paladin(1),Illusionist(x)
STR 16 DEX 20 CON 14 INT 18 WIS 5 CHA 1

• I really love the idea of an illusionist decoy because he can double as a bombardier and has access buffs and the all important mirror image. What I don’t love is the need to use tensors- effectively nullifying your illusionist abilities. 74 AC achievable only through tensors.

A “Decoy version” DG bane cleric utilizing monk wisdom bonus, (no shield or armor for monk wisdom AC bonus)
Deep Gnome monk of the old order(1), dreadmaster of bane (18), illusionist(11)
STR 5 DEX 20 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 20 CHA 1 (+1 int taken away from str so we have enough int to cast level 8 and then 9 spells at C-level 34 and 36 – base+iron banded staff+attribute bonus at level 32 = 18 int enough for level 8 spells, at level 36 int= 19, enough for level 9 spells. )

• 
  The biggest advantage imo is the ability to use that massive spell DC towards mass dominate as well as symbol of hopelessness, making him perhaps the ultimate in crowd control and combos well with a well placed wail of the banshee/DBFB. The only problem is that this character won’t actually be the main decoy until late when he takes over the duties from the tank by taking a level of monk (and also incurring a 20% exp penalty?!) in chapter 3 HoF. He also only reaches 72 AC with maximal items and divine shell (Sunfire talisman is Hof chapter so 68 AC until then if you have ghost armor instead of shell).

Q: If I’m planning to run just one of these characters in a 3 man party, which should it be? Can the decoy version carry me through HoF chapter 3 or do I need the tank as well to cover as protector until then or should I just go with the tank and ignore the decoy completely? Is the main reason for the tank to buy time so the decoy doesn't have to suffer a 20% penalty until hof chapter 3?

I’m using the level 40 max mod so in theory the decoy version can potentially reach something like monk(1), banite(18), illusionist(20), rogue(1) would this cause a 40% exp penalty?- This is what I would call the “perfect character” as he combines the power of a protector, a cleric and a mage all in one- if he could someone also cast barkskin then i think faerun would implode. sadly i dont think a 3 man party can dream of hitting 40 without serious cheese.


A tank/decoy needs two things not covered by a sorcerer/wizard:
A druid (12) for barkskin a possibly bard (11) for melody – this is very unfortunately because I dislike both of those classes and was one of the biggest turn offs when considering building a 72 AC decoy. Warchant of the sith also requires the bard to be fairly close to the decoy and it looks like this idea was dropped in the final version of JUPP.
So far I have:

1.1 DG decoy or tank – the foundation – decoy as well as potent cleric
1.2 druid(x)/bane(4)/bard(5)/rogue(?) for barkskin –there to barkskin and make cute animal noises
1.3 human sorcerer(x),paladin(1),monk(1), bombardier (my character favorite build by far and what I used to solo my last normal run) – there to rain fiery death on helpless goblins.

1.4 1.5 1.6, copies of 1.3?

Q:Will this be viable in tactics mode normal and HOF? I have no idea if enemy BAB has been buffed past 52, if so, I’m not sure how to fill the gap in AC other than enable the +10 AC bonus script but such an action is very undesirable because it sort of destroys the planning and preparation required to build a 72 AC character.

 

There's no reason to choose between the decoy and the tank, you're actually better off taking both. You don't really miss on anything either, as you get a wizard and a cleric by picking them.

Since the decoy concentrates on upping Wisdom and isn't supposed to pick the monk level until you actually need it - usually chapter three in HOF - he actually has LOWER potential AC than the tank version for quite a while. Even more so as you can't really take a Rogue level for the headband, while the tank version gets it at clvl 1.

This way you get the best of both worlds - a sturdy tank to throw at the early goblins that easily carries your party almost half way through HOF due to his Mirror Image/Tenser's, and a prime-time decoy to cover your back (Crossbow, anyone?) during that time. After the switch you get one untouchable decoy plus a sturdy tank to cover the flank.

You don't need a 11th level bard unless you insist on trying to combine the roles into one character, just as the main tank of the Melee party of JUPP does. Missing Expertise (due to minimized INT) is a bummer, but is compensated by being able to use Power Attack. But you just pay the cost elsewhere, as you suffer both 40% exp penalty on this character (chp 4 HOF onwards) and you NEED that 11th level Bard.

---------- Added 0 hours, 11 minutes and 34 seconds later... ----------

Also, in the odd case of skipping a diplomat character completely (!) it's quite feasible to make both the tank and the decoy have Illusionist as their main class. That way you can pick up the monk level (and even Rogue if you want to) early on. Two characters with decent INT (16+ recommended on both) is enough to cover all the skills in the game, so you can add a bunch of strong, dextrous morons (ranged power ftw) to fill up the rest.

 

I had my heart set on a 3 man party with one of them being a human sorc that recieved most of the quest exp. the main reasoning is that i want my tank cleric dg and sorc to reach their level 8th and 9th level spells as soon as possible instead of HoF where i miss a chance to inflict royal pain for the bosses in chapter 6. i.e. being able to get my sorc to level 6 right before the palisades attack makes life so much better as the goblin bosses literally kill her in 2 attacks. More concerning are the will of wisp fight(high AC), chapotek(fear+high ac), and xvim(again high AC,improved invis, perma stone skin etc etc). I had tried this run before with absolute level caps for my party- around 12 but found it was impossible to beat the later bosses due to not being able to break their AC.

the 3rd member is a human druid(20 ish), with A LOT of level 1 mix ins to fill the role of utility and diplomat I had totally forgotten the illusionist tank also covered the rogue duties!!!!

i think due to the crippling exp penalties of such a high level party i may have to periodic add in the remaining 3 members of the party once party averages reach unbearable high levels and this would not break the no squatting,muling rule for this run.

thanks for the reply ill likely end up using both now eventually.

 

So you'd start with a solo human sorcerer? Ouch. That's certainly doable, it's probably one of the strongest candidates to do the whole game solo, but the early parts (read: before fireball) is going to be a tough ride indeed.

If you peek a bit later into the JUPP guide, you'll see that I describe in detail how to effectively trade a few levels between your characters by the end of normal mode. So instead of ending up at level 16-17 and missing on the final 9th level stuff for your sorcerer, you can start with less people and add more along the way. You'll still average out at level 16-17, but a few of your characters can reach 20-22. The cost being that the ones you add last will only make it to level 14, 13 or even less.

 

This is certainly the area with the most potential for optmimization (squating and muling excluded of course) and revolves around giving all the quest exp to the sorcerer- for example, the initial quests in prologue, the ice temple battlesquare (which ive honestly never actually finished by hand!), and a few others. This will generally involve exporting then deleting everyone but the sorcerer and or power word:quick load which might be a little hard to justify by RP standards.

 

Oh you mean THAT way. Yeah, that's really beyond the cheesiness covered in JUPP - I've never considered that you could give the exp to anyone you like by doing this, even if you have more than 1 person in the party. Clever, but cheesy.

 

iwd2 rt mechanics

This is a complete list but after about an hour of trials which involed seeding 3 chests in the snake temple with about 100 viable rt candidates i could not get any them to drop a tymoras loop.

from what i know:
each treasure class or RT_n consists of 4 ranks L M R V, ranks L gives only gems and M only plain jewelery. ranks R and V give actual items which are often item sets such as RRNG_05.

the columns seem to indicate progressive rariety of that drop occuring. i.e column 1 of row RT1_R is very common but column 15 is impossibly rare.


The full list of RT classes that can drop rrng_05 and thus tymora are as follows, the second number indicates the column rrng_05 appears
RT12_R 45
RT12_V 45
RT13_R 45
RT14_R 40

RT14_V 5
RT15_R 5

based on this it seems RT14_V and RT15_R give the best chances to find tymoras loop and in testing this is true as i have managed to reload a loop from every enemy and container possesing this treasure class.

The remaining treasure classes, after much testing have never turned up anything from rrng_05 for me and i conclude that it is either impossibly rare or we dont know enough about what the column in rtnorm and rtfury mean.

if anyone has gotten a tymoras loop any time before saablic tan i would love to know as it would confirm a few things about drop mechanics.

On a side note i have recently disocvered that weapon finesse is an incredibly useful feat for any PC with a dex score 2 or more points higher than their strength score. for the low str decoy this means as much as 6 additional BAB! in all my years of play i always thought finesse only worked with small blades. AAA!