Entangle Changes

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Hello all, my fisrt post in this forum! I've been trollin around this place for a while, and screw it, might as well join.

I have a question. I've beaten IWD2 a few times, and I love using Druid. Especially those focusing on plants. My favorite spell is, without a doubt, Entangle, but you can only use it a few times in the game. So I wanted to know, is there a mod out there that allows you to use Entangle whenever you like? Or is there a way I can hack the game in order to do that?

Thanks in advance.

 

Not sure what you mean by use it a few times in the game. Do you mean it stops working on enemies after a while? If so, that's because as enemies level up, they become stronger and it's harder to affect them with basic spells. Using Spell Focus can probably make it more useful in the long run.

 

He means it only works outdoors, a real shame since a lot of the indoor battles you fight in IWD2 have pronounced chokepoints. Note that there are also spells which help reduce enemy saving throws.

It should be possible to edit the spell so it works indoors, but you'll need the help of an experienced modder.

 

Yeah, that it can only work outdoors is annoying. Yeah, it's workable, there are plenty of outdoor fights, but still, ya know?

Know any experienced modders I could ask for help? Or is there a place on this site I can ask that?

EDIT: Ha, I've done it! I've manageed to change it from working only outdoors, now I can use it indoors as well! I used something called Near Infinity. I just found the spell, then found the global flag that said "Outside Only", and turned that sucker off!

Thank you guys for the reponse, anyway.

 

you can also modify it to scale to caster level so it becomes stronger(harder to resist) as you level because as you progress through the game, enemies will become more and more resistant to crowd control.

 

Not sure if Entangle was affected by spell resistance or not (the complete list can be found in another thread), but taking Spell Focus only for that seems a bit odd in either case.

 

According 3.5 D&D rules entangle can only be countered with a successful reflex save and is not affected by spell resistance (need to check maybe the mentioned list too) - though it does only make sense, as there are kind of plant tentacles growing out of the earth and hold you in place - a spell resistance check against a "physical hold spell' would be just plain stupid.

(besides, there are way more other spells to use indoors then to rely on entangle only and it feels just wrong to use it indoors ^^ but that's just my opinion ... a druid is still a nature-based casting class and not some *hand-weaving* mage, which can just conjure a giant fist or other crazy things out of nowhere )

 

the only that feels wrong is being able to cast death on an entire mob of monster right after casting a mass hold/fear/confusion spell. the power gap between sorcrers and druids- and to a lesser extend sorcerers and clerics is ridiculous.

 

True but druids and clerics get a d8 of hitpoints per level plus better BAB progression and proficiencies. I think druids get shortchanged a bit compared to clerics, but clerics, wizards and sorcerers are all pretty balanced to me, IMHO.

 

The druid is only good for some of his transmutation spells (tremor/spike-x/y) and entangle, which as discussed can be barely used. The sorc/wiz shade-summons are way superior compared to the natures ally stuff and the only real reason to take 12 lvls of druid is barkskin, and only if you plan to go thru HoF.

Even the healing spell progression is slower than a cleric's...

(heck even call lightning - if outside - is only good for the init bolt, else most of the fights won't last 1 minute for the 2nd one. Usually your wiz/sorcs wrecked havoc ....)

On the other hand, a druid is a good supporter class, but I wouldn't use one as main-healer/buffer. But I guess it's personal preference.

Epic animal companion/epic wildshape aká dragon - which isn't implemented by default - are good examples for a more useful druid ^.^

 

IWD2's druid fills certain niches. He's the game's strongest caster early game (Entangle, Beast Claw, Thorn Spray, Call Lightning, Static Charge, summon spells, etc) which makes him ideal for parties with ECL/multiclassing casters. He is capable of massive single target damage with (repeated) castings of Call Lightning and Static Charge, which means he complements AoE-centric casters very nicely. He has healing spells - progression is slower, but the only other classes who get them are clerics and bards and neither class is as particularly suited to early game ownage or single-target nuking. Druids also get Moonblade, which can scramble magic (no save, spells cast in next round are miscast). Finally he can get rid of pesky non-construct/undead toughies quickly as he gets both Harm and Finger of Death.

 

This might be true, my problem is, i (currently) play only smaller parties, where I have to choose 'specialists' - your argument is right, if you have the freedom to choose e.g. a 5/6th random character; then (!) the druid does indeed shine, as he can fulfill several rolls (kinda jack of all trades ^^).

Maybe I'm too focused on my optimized party-layout, that's why I usually only take the mentioned 12-lvl-barkskin stuff, and mix it up with either more ranged damage or melee, depends on what I'm missing.

Though I recently started a new 5-man party and I do have a sole-class druid will see how things turn out.

anyway, topic was about entangle only guess I missed the point, kinda...

(It would be boring, if everybody takes the usual pala/fighter, cleric, rogue, xxx, mage/sorc stuff)

 

There was a digussion a while back about the strongest single class in the game and while many seem to agree that cleric was the best , after 4 playthroughs I would have to adamantly disagree and say sorc is the best- by a long shot and the only class viable for a solo insane tactics run through.

d8 hitpoints- is not a huge plus compared to d4 + mirror images and improved invisbility - when playing on insane difficulty , enemies hit for 40 and crit for 90 so its really much better to have mitagation defenses rather than a big hp buffer. - dont forget he fact you also have haste stone skin etc- clerics dont get anything nearly as useful and long lasting in terms of damage mitigation.

BAB- mordenkainens sword is one of many spells that puts sorcs way way over the top- 4d6+3 is better than most weapons and the 1 BAB per level bonus makes you have BAB higher than even a fighter at a similar level! absurdly, it works even with power attack and is easily maximized with luck items due to the its small dice size, the only thing keeping it from being the best weapon in normal mode is the fact its 2x crit instead of 3x crit.

druids- get gimped hard, a look at their level 7 and 8 spells makes me want to cry , and while their level 9 spells while not as terrible as cleric- still leaves much to be desired- currently the only reason i have one(lv20) is literally only for barkskin in HoF mode. they have a mass array of ground spells (entangle ,web, stone spike , etc) which although is a viable tactic- i find a bit time consuming and messy to use. druid-only spells are for the most part, useless.

sorcs- get mirror image, mass haste , mordenkainens sword, DBFB, SoH, wail of the banshee, executioners eyes and mass dominate. each one of these spells are groundbreaking and completely unique to arcane classes only (except SoH). sorc-only spells are varied and overpowering.

clerics- can revive the dead but its pretty anoying to have to re-equip items mid fight and i always tended to use power word reload when ever some poor soul got crit for 90 damage by a slayer knight. clerics also get heal/mass heal , SoH, various protection spells, DUMH, and minor blasting spells. cleric-only spells are usually very useful- but defensive in nature.

 

For damage mitigation clerics can reach the highest AC in the game while retaining most of their spellcasting. They also have numerous buffs to improve their saving throws and damage output. Finally clerics can summon just as well as wizards can, and a wall of summons works just as well as high AC for the purpose of damage mitigation.

You don't actually need very high BAB to hit things in IWD2, most monsters retain their AC even in HoF. Mordenkainen's Sword is nice but throwing Greataxes are the strongest weapons in the game imo. Greataxes get 1.5 str bonus gain (includes power attack iirc) for determining damage. They also have a x3 crit multiplier.

I think people chose Cleric simply because he has better survivability than the Mage/Sorcerer, unless we include the Improved Invisibility bug.

If you plan on bringing a Druid through HoF then you are doing so to capitalize on their massive single target damage and ability to shut down spellcasters - this is good to have depending on what approach you use to tackle HoF. Druid level 7-8 spells include Aura of Vitality, Heal, Harm and Finger, invaluable for party types who rely on summoning, death spells and/or direct combat.

 

thats a valid point but a deep gnome decoy (ac=72) bane cleric a very specialized build and i was comparing mostly to spell selection and viability in very small or solo(!) parties.

by single target spells do you mean call lightning,static charge and finger?

 

There are builds for a non-deep gnome cleric/x/x with very high AC, I think one is in the older JUPP. It was a human character iirc.

Yep, I mean those spells. They're nice to have in parties where you have AoE covered, one way or another. The full list includes Call Lightning, Static Charge, Harm and Finger of Death. Druid AoE is virtually nonexistent in HoF when compared to other classes', and their summoned creatures are decent but unpredictable - these can actually get you killed if you if you use AI patches (enemies cast Dispel Magic, which removes Protection from Evil). So I basically just use them for these spells, and of course Barkskin, the occasional trollslaying, buffing, babysitting my ECL parties early game and disabling casters with Moonblade.

 

I see, but in hof normal enemies will have so much hp that single target damage spells become ineffectual- compounded with the fact enemy spell casters will have mirror image and 2-6 layers of buffs. harm is a touch spell that i dont think ive ever used to much effect and i doubt it would be able to break most fortitude saves. finger of death... well, wail of the banshee is an aoe finger with higher DC. Also, druids dont have a instantaneous ranged crowd control such as power word blind, chaos or symbol of hopelessness/fear which is crucial for giving you time to set up big plays with nukes or wail. okay they have tremor but its level 9(!) and is centered on the caster. Having to send your druid in the midst of enemies is dangerous because you dont have the luxury of mirror image and invisbility. It seems youd be better off with a pure arcane caster unless you really need that barkskin for your 72 AC decoy. simply put, a wiz or sorc outperforms druid in every possible way(buffs,crowd control,blasting,instant death) except barksin.

 

True, but for one, I like Entangle, and would love to use it more. And I agree, Druids are nature priests, but it doesn't really feel out of place. Along with a few Spell Compodium spells like Vine Mine, they should have a connection with nature that allows em to poof up plants...and bears.

But yeah, thanks for all the replies, guys. While I am here, I wanna ask. I'm playing though Insane mode. I wanna have my fighter...y'know, fight. Of course, she can't get within five feet of enemies. Her AC is too low. I know in HoF mode, the magic number is 72. It should be significantly less in Insane. What should I get her to?

And if it's all the same, I wanna try to keep her has a plain fighter. I know, there are other more valid, powergamey ways to make her (not that I have an issue with that, mind you), but I wanna try her out. I haven't played pen & paper D&D, so I wanna fool around a bit. Thanks!

 

insane mode increases BAB even in normal mode but i was able to do well with 60 AC by chapter 6. some enemies such as big bosses and slayer knights will still rip you apart though. obviously, its not possible to reach anywhere near this. a pure figher will have to rely onother characters to cast crowd control such so enemies are scattered or immobilized in order to fight effectively.

i would suggest dumping the rest of the levels into cleric if you somehow have 18 wisdom , as you retain most of your BAB and HP but gain amazing melee skills like draw upon holy might, holy power, and most important, the ability to fully heal yourself.

on that same note,a cleric will outperform any pure melee class by a large margin as well as have access to divine spells.

 

No, as I said, she was a fighter. Didn't pump her Wisdom any.

But yeah, that's helpful. I just need to know what AC she should shoot for. I understand that in HoF, and to a lesser extent Insane mode, are a different game, but I don't believe you need to powergame though it using the best of the best options, bar none. It does require a change in tactics.

Like , in Normal, I could send my Tank into the fray and call it a day. Apparently, people has found a way to do that same thing in HoF (by pumping AC top at least 72). I don't mind having to change my strategies a bit because I'm playing a harder mode.