Howdy & RSPECing BG1 save for import to BG2?

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First off, howdy. New here but occasional visitor over the years.

I'm finally gearing myself up to playing BG2 after nearly a decade since I completed BG/BG:ToSC. I tried starting a few times but I had largely burnt myself out playing BG (quite thoroughly) and I wanted to import my character but didn't at the same time. (I certainly didn't want to hear "You must gather your party before venturing forth" anymore )

I finished BG with a level 8 Half Elf Ranger (199254xp) who was okay but nothing special:
Stats: 19, 18, 19, 11, 14, 9 & 68 HP (and 64k Gold pieces I won't get to keep )

However I'm not sure what to do, part of me strongly wants to RSPEC the character in terms of CLASS and not the stats (unless I go with the idea of a Kensai/Mage).

I'm 95% sure I don't want to play the game as a Ranger and would rather play as a theif, Bard or Kensai/Mage. I don't remember particularly enjoying my character class but didn't want to restart and get back up to where I was, indeed I think in many ways I treated Imoen as my PC in BG. Certainly I typically tend to play thiefs or mages when I play these sorts of games.

I know if I create a new character from scratch I start with 89K xp but it seems a waste to not keep the extra 70K experience (if I understood that imported characters are brought in at 161k XP)

I think the sheer number of character possibilities gets a bit overwhelming, particularly when I want to play a fairly useful character and I'm nearly positively that when I do complete it I won't end up playing BG2 again. I know I went into BG/ToSC with not really considering the character deeply but I find that I want to explore all the possibilites before starting BG2 again.

Not sure what sort of thoughts you might have but I'm curious to hear them.

Rob

 

If you have more than 89K, you keep your exp. If you have less - I don't know.

 

The sort of NPCs available actually makes your own choice of character class quite important. If you're just playing BG2 vanilla then the most important class you should aim to include in your character's repertoire is Thief, as all other classes are pretty well covered by various NPCs you can pick up. If multi-classing, don't have more than 2 classes or you will end up way behind your other party members - I'd personally go for Fighter/Thief or Mage/Thief.

I'm currently playing BG2 as a Mage (Conjurer) and it is rather frustrating not having a decent Thief in the party.

Classes to avoid: Druid (the most useless out of all classes, especially at high level), Paladin (you find a decent Paladin somewhere or another), Ranger (again there is a decent Ranger you can pick up) and Bard (too much of a jack-of-all-trades-and-master-of-none) and their related prestige classes. Anything else should give you quite a fun and enthralling game experience! Assassins are difficult to play (slow advancement), but pure Thieves are probably the most fun of all classes, followed by Mages and Sorcerers.

Also, it may sound like cheating, but if you want to keep your 199k XP then download the tool Shadowkeeper - it's a save/character editor and will allow you to do things like set up a Kensai/Mage multiclass (which incidentally is very powerful at high level, but slow to advance) or boost your XP to the desired quantity. Happy playing!

 

Thanks MrMermaid for the advice, I've spent this evening reading BG II forums (here, gamefaqs & GOG) and I must admit it is somewhat overwhelming with all the class options and trying to work out what's best to go with; particularly as views on certain characters vary so much.

From reading I've dropped the bard as an option (maybe if I ever play it again) and will choose between a Thief or Fighter/Mage; though a monk sounds fun.

I'm not sure why but while on one hand Dual/Multi is perfectly natural (people often change career paths), multi feels a bit of a cheat - i guess just harder to justify roleplaying wise in my head.

That said, I probably will use SK to give the new character the 199k xp I earned in BG1.

[edit] and reading more I'm even more indesicive.

 

BG2 druids and bards are very powerful. I would name the bard a strong contender for the game's top 5 strongest classes, while the BG2 druid is the most powerful incarnation of D&D druids in any D&D PC game thus far spellcasting-wise.
It's all about how you play them.

In BG2 the class that actually has the lowest potential for growth is the pure thief (the only difference between a pure thief and a Bounter Hunter/Assassin are skill points, and you'll have more than enough of those at higher levels). Thankfully, all the thief kits are pretty powerful at high levels.
It's due to the viability of (all) kits in the game that I can't really suggest a class for you without knowing what kind of playstyle you want.

[edit]
Since you're feeling indecisive, I suggest you go Kensai/Mage (the awesomeness of the mage + decent fighting ability), Ranger/Cleric (basically a druid/cleric/fighter) or Fighter/Mage/Thief (the game's true jack-of-all trades, imo, though since you can effectively combine magic, thieving and fighting to bring down enemies in BG2 it also happens to be one of the stronger classes in the game).
Then if you want to test the other classes just bring along the right NPC's.

 

What class(es) to be really depends on the type of character you like to play. I enjoy playing paladins and will usually try a game out with a paladin first -- and this game was practically made with a paladin protagonist in mind.

For other suggestions:

- Mages are difficult to use if you are not familiar with 2nd Ed AD&D. The kensai/mage dual class can be particularly challenging due to the limitations of the kensai. There are several good choices of NPC mages in the game so there is no need to have a mage for you main character.
- You will be able to recruit NPCs from nearly every class (but not every kit) so you'll get the opportunity to play all classes. Most notable classes/kits missing are: monk, sorcerer, ranger-archer, paladin-undead slayer, fighter-kensai, and fighter-mage multiclass. Some of these are available in fan-made mods.
- You can SK in one kit for a multiclassed character (which can be quite fun).
- A multiclassed fighter/thief is an awesome character in this game as is a ranger-cleric.
- At ~three million experience points you gain high level abilities for all your classes with a multiclass character, but only for the second class with a dual class character.

I also recommend you choose a male human or half-elf to take advantage of the "romances" in the game (you can also have a romance if you are female as well). The "romance" characters are divine spellcasters so you really don't need to play a cleric or druid (unless you want to). The romances are well written and add a lot of atmosphere to the game.

 

The first thing I'd say is that I wouldn't concern yourself AT ALL about the difference between starting a new character with 89K XPs, versus importing an old one with 161K XPs. It seems like a large difference right now - 45% of your total, but the average character in a 6-member party will complete SoA with around 3 million XPs, and if you go through ToB, you're looking at around 6 million per character. In that context, the 72K XPs you're missing out on is pretty much bupkis. And the beginning of SoA isn't particularly difficult anyway - it's not like you'll be at any real disadvantage by starting with a character that's one level lower.

As for the possibility of dual classing, it's totally acceptable to make a new character, and immediately dual class him as soon as you start the game. Actually, here's a little trick if you don't mind cheese: dual class immediately, and export your character. Restart a game and import him. The game automatically gives you 89K XP in your active class at the start of the game, so you'll have 89K XPs in both, and you'll re-access your first class skills sooner. (And you'll start with nearly the exact same amount if you just pumped yourself to 199K XPs anyway.)

BTW, if you want to have a great thief in your party, it's pretty much up to your PC to be one - either a dual or multi. Your choices of thieves in the game are rather limited. The one class I would recommend against is any type of cleric. There are a ton o' clerics in SoA, regardless of whether you're playing good or evil. I'd stay away from druids as well, as Jaheria makes a return and is pretty much as good of a druid as you could make for yourself.

 

As always, when somebody considers a fighter-mage, I can only say:
A great choice.
Though I'd recommend going with a gnome fighter-illusionist because he's both very easy to build and extremely powerful. In both regards better than kensai-mage.

 

First, thank you all for the thoughts, suggestions and tips. Its really helpful, even if it leads me to be reading more on the forums rather than playing the game (for instance better to dual or multi a fighter/thief)

The indecision is simply because the likelyhood of me every playing through the game again is slim to none. Its taken me 10 years to get to trying again, though I had a failed attempt 5 years ago when my first child was born.

Paracelsi: Its interesting you rate the Bard so highly from what I've read others are quite dismissive of him as he's to much of a jack-of-all-trades. However, I'm not surprised either as like every class in this game, some love one over another. (Hell I'm sure I remember from days gone by that the Monk was considered the dogs bollocks)

T2Bruno:As noted in a previous post, my memory of playing BG is that I treated Imoen more as my PC than my PC and often had her off hunting for traps, blasting people with arrows, opening doors and chests; though not so much the backstab thing. Indeed comparing my saves of BG1 and an aborted Monk from a decade ago, I see i must have given Imoen the Dex stat tome as her Dex is 19 in the BG 1 save and 18 in BG2.

Aldeth: Regarding XP & Dauling & thieves, noted - thank you.

Bsisi: Interesting, don't think I've stumbled on a Fighter/Illusionist yet.

So prehaps the Fighter/Thief is the way to go, though the whole dual/multi seems to again cause divides. The downside I see to multi is you get 6 less HLA; assuming I managed to get 8 million XP with a party of 6, is that possible?

Dual F9/T39 15 thief HLAs
Multi F24/T28 5 Fighter HLA's, 4 thief HLAs

Multi Illusionist 20/Thief 28 (what comes of reading) 1 Mage HLA & 4 thief HLAs. Dragon Breath sounds fun and I can imagine a Mage dabbling in thievery to get the scrolls & money needed to get by in life (particularly getting invisibility and pickpocket/backstab)

I tend to like Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral for characters.

 

You get HLA's when your active class is above 3 million xp's -- for multiclass all classes count (hence, 1.5 million xp's in each class for a fighter/thief).

Dual F9/T39 does get 15 thief HLA's
Multi F24/T28 nets 9 fighter HLA's and 11 thief HLA's

Multiclass rocks. The 20/28 Illusionist/Thief get the same 11 thief HLA's (of which Use Any Item is insanely powerful) and 6 mage HLA's (although your first couple will only be added lower level spell slots). There's already a gnome illusionist/thief in the game -- no point in making another one.

And it's doubtful you ever get to 8 million xp's with a full party.

 

I don't actually play bards more than I play other classes, as I prefer thief hybrids myself. IMO some players seem to be biased about bards more because of general the reputation of the class. You don't hear specific complaints about bards - it's always that the class is "too much of a jack-of-all-trades" or something similar.

From a purely objective standpoint, though, the bard class is built for power. They are fighter/mages who can steal, which means their early-mid game is guaranteed to be easier. They are fighter/mage/thieves who can use bard-specific items and automatically identify most items in the game. They are the fastest leveling spellcasters in the game, which means their Chromatic Orbs/Flame Arrows/Skull Traps/Animate Dead/Remove Magic grow in power earlier and stay more powerful all throughout. At end game they can conjure images to sing the Enhanced Bard Song for them, guaranteeing them a place as the game's ultimate buffers. A single Enhanced Bard Song on three warrior-types using Greater Whirlwind translate to the bard doing 120 extra damage per round in ToB, assuming all blows hit their mark (4 extra damage per hit x 10 hits x 3 characters).
Their abilities are definitely not to be underestimated, and a place for them among the game's strongest classes would be well deserved.

 

Everything that T2B said was correct, but I'd also add one more thing. Upon attaining 1.5 million XPs in each class as a multi-classed character, you are allowed to chose HLAs from either list. Thus, in the case of a multi-classed fighter/thief, you can pick a thief HLA when you level as a fighter, and vice versa.

IMO, a multi-classed fighter thief is among the best choices in the game. This is because you won't ever need to get to be level 30+ as a thief to get the maximum effectiveness out of a thief. Sure, in the beginning, you'll have to make some decisions with each level up as a thief as to where to place your additional 25 thief skill points, but by the time you hit level 15 or so, you'll have several hundred skill points to spread around. This doesn't count the base amount you start with, and any bonuses you might have for racial or dexterity bonuses.

Then you add in the items present in the game that you can equip on your thief. There are a ton, and which items you select to use are based solely on the areas that you are lacking in thief skills. For example, there's the Ring of Lockpicks that increases your chances of picking a lock by 25%. You'll eventually want your lockpicking skill at 100%, but if you don't mind using one of your ring slots for this item, you can get away with 75% in the skill and place those other 25 point elsewhere. And the Ring of Lockpicks is just one example. There's also the Ring of Danger Sense (enhanced chance of finding and removing traps), Gloves of Pickpocketing (self-explanatory), Boots of Stealth (increased chance of moving silently and hiding in Shadows), the Night's Gift (leather armor with improved chance of moving silently and hiding in shadows), and the Mercykiller Ring (enhanced chance of setting traps and hiding). As your thief levels continue to increase and you gain additional skill points, you can gradually ditch this equipment when you no longer need it.

As I've commented on before, a bard is a great party member (and there is one available as an NPC - a blade kit to be precise), but not a terribly great choice as a PC. This is for the exact reason you mention - he's a jack-of-all trades. Most people like their PC to be "the man" in whatever area you specialize in. You want the PC to be the party's best fighter, or best thief, or best mage, or whatever. The bard will not be the best at anything. He won't be a better melee character than any paladin, fighter, or ranger, but he'll be better than any other class. He gets mage spells, but he won't be a better mage than a pure mage. He has thieving abilities, but he can't pick locks or remove traps, so he can't replace a thief. You won't hurt your party by including a bard, but I wouldn't recommend one as a PC - especially if you only plan on playing through once.

And you won't. There is none in any of the games. However, as T2B pointed out there IS an thief/illusionist in BG2, so you may want to avoid that particular combination as you'll get that experience if you really want it. However, I would point out that there really is no reason to take on more than one thief. Like I said, by mid-game any multi-classed thief will be able to do everything that a thief can do. So if you do intend to pick up this thief/illusionist, you may want to chose something other than a fighter/thief as your PC.

I guess it's possible. If you just wander around a lot looking for random encounters, you'll get there eventually. IIRC, there's the Machine of Lum the Mad in ToB that, among other things, can conjure random monsters. So I guess you could just keep activating the machine and fight battle after battle, but that would get really boring after a while. If you have a full party of 6 characters, there's a little more than 3 million XPs in SoA and ToB. So with a full party you can expect somewhere between 6 million - 6.5 million XPs per character.

 

I've sometimes been blocked from choosing HLA's from either list, I don't know why. But it happened with my cleric/thief so I just seperated them above (bonus if it works as Aldeth says).

 

Lum the Mad's machine is a really bad way to grind for xp. Among other effects, you can get petrified or just random damage. There are a couple of places in ToB where enemies respawn infinitely, I would suggest going to one of these places.

In Saradush, you can park an archer on the city walls and shoot at fire giants off of the screen. You'll get hit by random impacts every now and - I don't know off hand what damage type it is, so don't know if there's an easy way to make yourself immune - but it's a relatively safe way of grinding for xp, even if a bit slow.
When confronting Yaga-Shura, an infinity number of reinforcements will spawn, so it's possible to just grind them if you can, but you'll get quickly overwhelmed if you stay overly long.
In Sendai's lair, there's a split at one point, one side of which takes you into an area where low level enemies spawn continuously until you get to a certain point in the map. This is probably one of the easiest and quickest places to level grind as these enemies aren't too strong, but still yield quite a bit of xp. You just have to take care none of your characters chase after enemies too far into the map.
Another place is in Amkethran after a certain point in the game, where you'll again some enemies respawn infinitely. Like in the Yaga-Shura fight, you'll probably won't want to stay too long here or you'll get overwhelmed.

But any way you may care to do it, it'll get tedious quite quickly. Easier then to just CLUAConsole in some extra xp.

/edit

Isn't this because you're not high enough level to select the HLA spells for clerics or mages because you can't cast spells from that level? That's the only occasion in which I encountered this, at least.

I did have a monk that somehow started being able to select HLAs at 2.85 mln xp already, a level before anyone else in my party could.

 

Well, some people like to play as middlemen or politicians, as advisors or leaders. While rarely the best at any particular thing, excepts perhaps at strengthening their connections, the are also (quite easily) among the most powerful people in the world.

 

I'd like to add 1 thing that I said in another part of the forum:

Not sure, maybe there are monsters, but it has 10% chance to give the user 100k XP just like that.

I remember there's a mage on the walls. I think that while you stand close to him, you're safe, you can leave the party shooting and go somewhere. But I never exploited it much, it would feel like cheating.

 

Agh, my rather long reply got nuked. Try 2 (abrievated, sorry)

Thanks to you all for chipping in with advice and info. It has been helpful to make a decision on what I am playing. Basically I've gone for a Halfling Fighter / Thief, I've cheated a bit by upping the stats based on the stat tomes from BG 1. The other thing I did was apply the Romance Cheat to remove the racial requirements for the romances, as I wanted to play a halfling but also try a romance.

I have taken the following proficencies but I'm not sure about them yet and might change them around in SK.

Short Sword +
Scimitar +
Quarter Staff +
Short Bow +
Single Weapon Style +
Two Weapon Style +

Now hopefully to play after days of phaffing

 

I would specialize a bit more with those proficiencies. Placing two points in a given category gives you an extra half attack per round, so by diversifying you'll be reducing your damage output. You're going to get more proficiencies as you play, and you can pick up other things you like later.

If I had six to play with, I'd go one of two ways:

Short Sword ++
Scimitar ++
Two Weapon Style ++

Conversely, if you think you'll lose a lot of Quarterstaves:

Quarter Staff ++
Two Handed Weapon Style (not the same as two weapon) ++
Crossbow/Short Bow/Large Bow (whichever you prefer) ++

Basically decide what you're doing early on. If you want to dual wield, throw two points in two weapon style and diversify your one handed weapon choices from there on out. Dagger and Katanas are also solid choices for further proficiencies, and you can backstab with all of them.

If you decide you want a quarterstaff - it's the only two-handed weapon you can backstab with - then you may as well maximize your effectiveness and throw two points in two handed weapon to double your chance for a critical hit. If you're using a two handed weapon, then it makes sense to take a missile weapon as your other choice. Later on, it wouldn't even be inadvisable to throw some points into Halberds or Two Handed Swords - you won't be able to backstab with them, but for general combat purposes, they may serve you better than a quarterstaff (although admittedly there are a ton of good quarterstaves in the game).

The first setup is definitely a melee setup - he's going to be up near the front with your other fighters. The second setup is more of a backstab and distance attack setup. You'll start off with a backstab on some fights, but then you'll retreat back and use your bow. I can't really recommend one over the other - it's preference in play style (although I will point out that the second option tends to be a bit safer - you get to pick your spots for a backstab, and stay to the back against very dangerous enemies).

 

A few recommendations:

Two weapon style is pretty much useless with only one proficiency point. You still have huge penalties to dual wielding. Put either two or three points, but don't use dual wielding until you have three points. Choose either single weapon style or two weapon style to play.

If you want to use staves (which is the best backstabbing weapon in the game) focus on staves and two handed weapon first. It's a great specialty but not as fun as dual wielding. I used staves for a cleric-thief due to the limits of weapon selection. You can continue choosing two-handed weapons -- once you get high enough level you can use the best weapon in the game as a F/T (normally reserved for paladins only).

Concentrate on single weapons. Put two points in a weapon before moving on (the second point gives +1 to hit, +2 damage, and an extra half attack per round -- this is a big boost).

The thieving bonuses you get from being a halfling (as opposed to a half-elf or elf) pales in comparison to the 19 strength you can get from an elf or half-elf. You'll quickly find an excess of thieving skills. To simulate your character importing from BG1 the halfling will have an 18 strength max (+1 to hit, +2 damage), the elf or half-elf character can have a 19 strength (+3 to hit, +7 damage). The strength issue is not a big deal if you intend to use strength enhancing items, but I prefer to boost my main character's strength and give those items to NPCs. Of course you can just SK your strength to 19.

Halflings have +1 to hit with a sling. There are two excellent slings available early in the game. Both give strength bonus damage (although one is considered a bug).

I'd choose either short sword or scimitar and put two point in it -- short sword is better for a thief. Put one point in a missile weapon (if you really think you'll be using one otherwise go with another one handed thief weapon). Then put three points in two weapon style.

Edit: Doh! Semi-ninjaed by Aldeth.

 

About the only thing I'd disagree with T2's statement is that you don't need 3 points in two weapon style to effectively dual wield. In fact, as a F/T, I'm not even sure if you'll be able to allocate a third point - aren't they limited to two there as well?

Anyway, if you no points in two weapon style and try to dual wield, you're looking at a huge penalty: -4 main hand, -8 offhand.

With one point, it's still -2 main hand, -6 offhand.

The second point gives no penalty on the main hand, -4 offhand.

The third point still gives no penalty (or bonus) to the main hand, but reduces the offhand penalty to -2.

But here's the thing with dual wielding. The offhand, no matter what weapon you select, will only attack once per round. Your main hand weapon is going to attack around 3 times per round (depending on your level, and the number of proficiency points you spend on a given class of weapon). That's why I consider that 3rd point in two weapon style to be not essential. If it gave another bonus to the main hand, then sure, but the offhand is not a major source of damage, and thus, I don't care about a slightly reduced chance to hit.

Normally, I don't even pick an offhand weapon based on the damage it does. I'll pick an offhand because it does something that helps the main attack - like a strength bonus, or granting an extra attack per turn. (Note when you put a weapon in your offhand that grants an additional attack, the extra attack is made with your main hand weapon.) Or perhaps I go for some status effect - like an offhand weapon that grants negative plane protection or the like.

Personally, I feel if you are just going for variety of weapon choices, short swords are an excellent early selection. There's a ton of pretty decent short swords you'll get your hands on pretty early in the game. The next tier in terms of variety I'd put longswords and daggers - also decent variety, even early. With scimitars and katanas, you can get some excellent choices, but most of them are later on in the game. You can pick up proficiencies in those weapons as you progress through the game - there's no reason to select them with your initial proficiency placement, as you probably won't be using them at that point anyway.