Taking a Kensai through SoA and ToB, questions regarding the merits of dual classing

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Hey,

My Kensai just hit 13 and that was the point at which I wanted to dual class to mage when I started this playthrough. Now I'm not so sure. The fact that I'll lose my main source of melee damage for a good chunk of time is somewhat of a concern, but mostly I just worry that I'll regret having stopped the kensai progression before any HLAs or anything like that.

So I wouldn't mind some advice about whether to dual class. I already have a mage and between 6 chars I have plenty of micromanaging to do in big fights so I like the fact that the Kensai is more or less fire and forget, so I'd miss that. Also, the more I think of it, the more it seems that going mage would only be beneficial defensively, with things like stoneskin and mirror image, but then again I can't find a thorough Kensai progression table anywhere so I'm not sure what I'm losing by stopping the Kensai at 13 rather than just sticking with the single class through ToB.

Anyway, any help appreciated!

 

My fighter progression calculator:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ujjy5379cd27v84

Normally, pure fighters stop noticeably improving after they have a 5 or so HLAs. Kensai is the only exception. So if I were to take a fighter all the way through ToB (I never did), this would be Kensai. The highest lvl Kensai that I got was 21, and he was a real killing machine.

It is true that by far the biggest reason to go with a F/M is defense, but also additional magical support in heavy fights. Sometimes your mages are busy and there's nobody to breach some protections. Or just that 1 more dragon breath can be a significant help.

And the improved defense is a big deal, especially for a Kensai, you'll end up being by far the best tank in your party.

Switching at lvl 13 is not a very big deal. Painful, but manageable. You can also do it at level 15-16. It's much harder, but you'll end up really powerful. You can do it even later, but I don't recommend it, I tried it and IMO it's too much effort.

To sum up:
A dual classed character would be much more powerful in the long run at the expense of some period of uselessness. Also, he would have a melee damage output significantly lower.
It's up to you what you to decide which will be more fun.

 

Thanks a lot for the link and the reply Bsisi. Yeah I definitely take the point that improved defense is immense for the Kensai. I guess I'm just worried that he'll never get any better in melee than now, and I still have loads of the SoA/ToB left. Anyway, seems the next big step on the progression chart is level 15 so I might delay the decision until then, but you're right that overall the character becomes better with going dual class. Don't know .. with a pre-generated ranger/cleric, inquisitor and monk I can definitely afford having a paper tiger whose only job on the roster is making things bleed.

 

If your party already has two or more arcane casters (counting Aerie but not counting Jan/Haer'Dalis) then feel free to go pure Kensai. Dual-classing to F/M mainly adds survivability to the character, and looks like you already have that covered. Damage was never the problem.

Two arcane casters is ideal, since one can act as a backup for the other. Haer'Dalis and Jan Jansen (unless he plays like Nalia/Imoen, a waste IMO) don't count since optimizing these two means memorizing more than a few self-only spells.

EDIT:
After reading that last post, I think you may need just a bit more mage support in ToB.

 

IMO 5-6 would be ideal with a self-made party and within limits of stock NPCs -c.a. 4.

 

If you're enjoying playing the Kensai then keep playing it that way. If you'd rather play a mage with fighting ability level 13 is a good time to shift.

You can level up quickly with a mage by kicking everyone out of your party (except your romance partner) and writing scrolls (you have been saving every one you can haven't you?).

 

For what mod? I once tried bringing three archers through unmodded BG2/ToB, and the three could kill anything that didn't have a boss-gimmick or special immunities in 10-ish seconds. That's not an exaggeration.

I know you need more mages in heavily modded games, but two was enough for me even with a few SCSII-like features on.

 

Well the only mods I'm using are BG2 Tweaks and The Darkest Day. This is my first playthrough in a decade and I read mixed things about Tactics, so I decided not to go there yet. Game is fairly well balanced right now on Insane, with some really tough fights but nothing too extreme -- I've had to abandon some stuff like Watcher's Keep and some well scripted TDD fights but those things are clearly meant for a higher level party.

After BG1 I really wanted to try out some of the kits and new classes, so I went with 6 pre-generated characters. I'll check out the NPCs in another playthrough -- some of the npcs need to redeem themselves after some anodyne performances in BG1 -- I think there was a whopping one instance of NPC interaction in my playthrough, although I know BG2 is a huge step up in that respect.

Kensai
Inquisitor
Ranger/Cleric
Archer
Wild Mage
Monk.

Had a thief but dumped him and switched to a monk. Thief skills are handled by Knock, true sight and the monk's trap abilities, although most of the time I just plough through traps and rest after them.

If arcane magic is key in the later stages of the game/expansion then I might be in trouble, but for now I don't feel that anything is lacking. From a utilitarian/balance point of view going dual class on the Kensai makes perfect sense given the strong presence of meleers and a shortage of arcane magic ... from a funfactor point of view, probably not so much.

 

Once we start talking Tactics and SCSII-heavy then arcane magic becomes pretty much mandatory, unless it's the challenge you're looking for. I'm not very familiar with TDD though, I hear it's quite buggy.

 

I didn't know about SCSII; I'll try that now/next time if it needs a new playthrough. TDD ... it is buggy. It was recommended in a walkthrough I looked at on gamefaqs but it was clearly stopped with some major bugs in it. Things like... you talk to someone to open up a new map, get the update in the dialogue box but no new location on the map. Anyway, it's a lot more content and the more content the merrier .. so long as it doesn't jeopardize the core game elements I'm not too fussed about the bugs (and so far there haven't been any conflicts/ctds in the game).

 

You'll definitely have far more fun if you keep your kensai pure until the end. Kensai/mage is for solo characters.

 

While I don't necessarily agree with Jan being unacceptable as a backup mage, provided you have anyone else who is a mage in the party, I do largely agree with Paracelsi's opinion here. If you already have two arcane casters, then dual classing probably isn't going to do a whole lot for you. However, in your party, the only source of arcane magic is from the wild mage, which while the most useful of any option, still may prove suboptimal.

IMO, you would be well served by dual-classing, and I'd probably do it at level 13. It's true your kensai would be even better if you wait until level 16, but that's a huge amount of difference regarding experience. You'd need 3 more levels of kensaid (750,000 XPs), and then another 3 levels of mage (1,050,000 XPs), so you're looking at an additional 1.8 million XPs before reactivating your kensai abilities. Depending on your play style, that somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of all the experience you'll earn in the game.

 

Simple rule of thumb: Multi-classing is superior when you play into ToB. In SoA dual-classing is superior.

Back then, I SKed myself a muli-classed kensai-thief ... initially very challenging to play, he eventually became exceedingly lethal once he got 'use any item' and could wear the iirc black dragon armour. Gee, I almost like to reinstall the game on my net book.

 

Some interesting points raised here.

In my curiosity I SKed my Kensai to 16 fighter/17 mage to see what he'd be like that that stage. Christ ... he's absolutely beastly. Granted, he now has roughly twice the xp of the rest of the party but using only defensive spells he is absolutely unstoppable, never mind the potential for offensive spellcasting. I'm going to stick with a pure kensai, I'll try a legit dual class some other time. In any case, this playthrough is getting a bit silly since I spent too much time grinding xp and gear before going into the Asylum; the whole route to the end of the Underdark was mindnumbingly easy. Time, I think, to restart with SCSII installed.

 

Keep in mind that IMO, Chapter 4 is probably the easiest of any of the Chapters. Unless you have a brain fart, there's no reason you should ever have to reload. It's pretty much the same thing in Chapter 5, as the Beholder Cavern is quite challenging if you don't cheese it. Chapter 5 also has the difficulty considerably increased if you decide to fight Adalaon rather than returning her eggs. But yeah, if you grind early, and do everything you can do before going to the Asylum, it only going to be more glaring how easy those chapters are.