Kits tiny lil' problems (or should I say: bugs)

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Section 1: Kit glitches I noticed, made a fix and will add in next SPfixpack

Absence of To Hit modifier
This was already asked on SP boards as if Daystar's bonus to hit evil creatures was bugged. Further investigation shown that the problem was not in Daystar – the problem was in Assassin's kit advantage.
Originally this +1 to hit advantage is made as permanent applying of HITPLUS1.EFF on Assassin. This however is glitched in BGmain.exe. The problem appears when your Assassin equips any weapon which contains bonus to hit any group of creatures. Such is Daystar, The Root of the Problem, War Hammer +1;+4 vs. Giantkin, etc. Just equipping any of these weapons instantly cancels the applying of HITPLUS1.EFF and you may see in your hit rolls when you turn them on in options that your to hit bonus is actually decreased by 1 for no reason.
The game in fact cancels to hit bonus contained in any effect if it is targeted at anything (target_table 2, pointer 0) if it finds special to hit bonus inside any effect contained in an item. But the problem was not only present in Assassin Kit. Actually there are four kits that have to hit modification glitched in these files:
Assassin's Kit Advantage +1 to hit
Blade's Offensive Spin +2 to hit
Skald's Kit Advantage +1 to hit
Beserker winded (after Enrage) –2 to hit
Seems that Bioware actually knew about this problem and fixed it in the game release for Kensai kit advantage, Swashbuckler Kit advantage and for Beserker's while Enraged. Nice touch! Outstanding quality assurance!
Note that Beserker's –2 to hit in winded state originally wouldn't apply if Beserker was wielding some of those weapons with to hit bonus vs group of creatures, which is to be considered as a pure bugexploit.

Backstab modifier bug
Stalker is a ranger kit, but a kit that can backstab as a thief. However, the spell responsible for increasing multiplier of this advantage is flawed in a manner if stalker dies, backstab modifier is completely lost. The same goes for an Assassin Kit that gains this multiplier +1 when reaches levels 17 and 21. He dies, modifier vanishes. Note that actual presence of this modifier is maybe a bug in case of Assassin (see below).

Beserker Enrage immunity to stun leftout
Enrage should among other things protect Beserker from being stunned. However, this was omitted in original ability so is now added.

Confusing applying of graphic effects
Although some Kits have advantages/abilities of immunity to Confusion and/or Hold Person which works, the graphical effect that appears above heads will still be applied although these kits are not held nor confused. But the player would be confused: "There is that graphic effect, but how come this NPC is controlable, and this one is not?!?!".
The graphical effects that are being applied no matter the immunity are SPMINDAT (for Hold Person) and SPCONFUS (for Confusion), and I've added these modifications that were missing in original files:
Inquisitor - added immunity to SPMINDAT
Undead Hunter - added immunity to SPMINDAT
Beserker's Enrage - added immunities to SPMINDAT and to SPCONFUS
Skald's Bardsong if level20 - added immunity to SPCONFUS

Presence of icons of effects that are cancelled
Monks gain immunities to charm, poison and disease. But although these effects are instantly cancelled on the monk, the icons will still be displayed on their portrait which may confuse the player who could think that monk is actually affected.

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Section 2: Some strange omissions I'm not sure that are bugs

I would never even post about Kit glitches in the first place, if I haven't actually had some second thoughts about some things I'm not sure should I fix to description or not. So, here goes, and I would like you to post your opinion on these:

WizardSlayer's advantage in description is gaining of 1% magic resistance per level. But in the game he gains 2% per level!
Also WizardSlayer should by description inflict 10% of casting failure per successful hit on opponent. However he inflicts 25% casting failure!

Kensai should gain attack bonus speed factor decreased by 1 every four levels. However, this is sometimes gained earlier – instead on level 9, he gets this on level 8 and instead on level 17 he gets this on 16?!?! This is totally strange since Kai ability is also gained every 4 levels and it is not gained anywhere earlier.

Cavalier is immune to Charm although this is not stated in description. Also with this not logical issue: if someone casts charm or domination on cavalier, on his portrait will appear icon "charmed", "dire charmed" or "dominated" (icons 0, 1 and 43), but actually he won't be charmed!

Archer doesn't get Charm Animal ability like other rangers although description nowhere says that this should be Archer's disadvantage.

Stalker gains 20% to stealth which is just as it is written in description. But he also gets bonus of 20% to hide in shadows that is not mentioned in description! Note that Cloak of Elvenkind specifically gives ONLY bonus to hide in shadows. Boots of Stealth do grant both stealth (move silently) and hide in shadows bonuses, but both are noted in item description.
Also in description is stated that he gets backstab x 3 on level 17. Not true! He gets it at level 15?!?

Beast Master just as Stalker also gains stealth bonus, in his case that is 15% as is is stated in description, but again there is also bonus to hide in shadows 15% although this one is not stated in description.

Bounty Hunter Special Snare strange thing - description says that if he is level 11 "the trap holds the target if a save is failed"
This is not accurate. It holds only humans, demihumans, or humanoid creatures, but not other types of targets (animals, monsters, etc) unlike the 16th level trap which will hold ANY type of creature inside the Otiluke's resilient sphere.

It is stated in Blade's description that Offensive spin cannot be used in conjunction with haste or improved haste. This is not true. Haste and Improved Haste don't reject Offensive Spin by any means so those can be combined. Improved Haste only rejects ordinary Haste.

Jester's song is described that opponent must save vs. magic at +4 once per round or be confused. Actually, it is made that they must save vs. spells at +2!?

Priest of Helm's Seeking Sword should provide 2-8 damage according to description. This is not true, it inflicts 1-8 damage.

Priest of Lathander should gain +1 to hit while using Boon of Lathander, but unlike other Kits who get this bonus, this one will be displayed in character sheet as +1 to THAC0, not as +1 bonus To Hit which might be confusing.

Barbarian rage among other things by description gives to him "2 point armor class penalty and +2 to saves vs magic". AC penalty is without question inside the rage ability. However, +2 to saves vs magic is in other descriptions used as a bonus, not as a penalty, but in the Barbarian Rage spell it is placed as penalty to save vs spells –2?!?!

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This is not all of course. I've noticed that there are also some minor weapon specializations bugged, but that is what I will fix. I also haven't checked few things (for example if Assassin really gets 15 points to distribute per level), but those we'll leave for better days...

 

Good grief? So basically every kit is bugged? I used to really like this game, but now I am starting to loose respect for it.

Go gettem' Extremist!

 

Extremist is tearing the game apart. And I like it.

 

WOW. And he hasn't even started ToB yet.

 

Well dont ever start talking like that infront of small children there parents mite slap a nice sized restraining order on you. I feel slightly dumber and my moral for the game has dropped. and yet i feel the need to read this post over and over. you are a tricky fellow you are.

 

Hey, don't lose morale, OK?

The game is good, Kit's stuff just need some corrections...

Right, now post me if you think some of those "suspicious" inconsistencies I shouldn't correct. For example you may post something like:
"This kit is a bit underpowered, so don't fix his..."

 

Eh I appreciate what BioWare has done... and with all those numerous bugs in it.. eh who cares? I mean, the game plays good, doesnt it?

Those bugs are just (like the topic) tiny lil' problems which can be fixed if you have plenty of time on your hands... like Extremist for example.

SQUISH THEM ALL!

 

(Note: I am amazed that someone can be such a perfectionist; I salute you, although what I really would like to know is how you find these things. Guess my INT is not high enough.)

My (very biased, admittedly) opinion is:
Keep the Wizard Slayer as he now is. (Offhand, should a Wizard Slayer be able to be dualled into a wizard? Not a bug, definitely, but some suicidal logic )
Keep the Cavalier. (For no other reason but that he could look straight into dragon's eyes. How can the guy fight dragons if they charm him?)
Keep the Archer. (The Beast Master is the animal-friend, I gather.)
Keep the Stalker and Beast Master hide in shadows bonuses. (I don't think these bonuses harm anyone.)
Keep the Blade's Haste.
Keep the Barbarian's penalty vs. spells as a penalty.


Change the Kensai.
Change the Stalker's backstab.
Change the Bounty Hunter's trap.
Change the Priest of Helm and the Priest of Lathander.

And do the mightier way of Jester (I always get confused when it comes to saving throws; and NO, I did NOT intend this as a pun.)


Random Quote:
After all, history will be written by those who will win under your standard. There are time-tested methods: Mordor will have to be converted into an Empire of Evil which intends to enslave the whole Middle-Earth, and its nations - into filth, riding on werewolves and feeding on human flesh…
- Saruman to Gandalf, on the White Council of 3010

 

"Such a perfectionist", in fact nitpicker, is something you're granted with only by stars. Guess my zodiac!

Your INT is high enough. Everyone's is. Except Bioware's, I guess.
Those things you see up there took me FOUR days to find out. All I did was chasing the report on the "false alarm Daystar bug" and ended up in checking all Kits and all of their advantages/disadvantages. With all the help of Infinity Engine Explorer I was able to filter out all things that don't behave according to description, except a few that are hard-coded and need a test within the game itself.

I don't nor I won't fix only the one or two things that are reported. That is Bioware's policy.
If I see something bugged at one spot, I'm always checking if it appears at some other spot. I mean, where is the fair play if I fixed Blade's Offensive Spin, but left out Beserker's Windy state? Wouldn't it be lame if I fixed one kit just because I hate that another one or because I'm lazy to browse through possible repeating of the same bug?

But I have another question. It is this:
Why are Paladins, Rangers, Barbarians and MCFighter allowed to get 3 "stars" in two-weapon proficiencies? I mean, only pure fighers should get past normal specialization, or I'm wrong? In short, is possibility to get 3 stars in two-weapon style a bug for everyone except plain fighter (and fighter kit) class?


[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited April 24, 2002).]

 

I am quite sure that the Wizard slayers Magic Resistance from 1% per level 2% was implemented in the SoA patch. To counter the rediculous fact that monks get higher MR than a wizard slayer.

I could remember wrong, but patching a patch that sounds resonable nomatter if it is the official SoA patch or not... I wouldn't.

 

No. The 2% for wizard slayer is present in original game too.

There are only two things related to kits' abilities present in the patch.

1. SPCL221.SPL file and it is the correction of the Cavalier.
Cavalier is immune to poison and this works wether your game is patched or not, but if he is hit by poison weapon in unpatched game you'll see the icon "poisoned" on the portrait, although cavalier is in fact not poisoned, but this could confuse the player.

2. CLABFI02.2DA is skilltable for Beserker. If your game was started with Beserker in unpatched game, the game would apply on him permanent disable of spellselect button. Such Beserker could DC to mage, but wouldn't be able to cast any spell from the spell button.

And these two things are only two things Bioware fixed. Outstanding work!!!!
That takes two minutes to make.

I mustn't forget also some monk related movement/attack speed stuff that was in fact the BGmain.exe bug, not the kit itself.

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited April 24, 2002).]

 

If the wording for the stalker and beastmaster is a 15% or 20% *stealth* bonus, then it should be applied to both, I believe. There is no *stealth* skill, there's hide in shadows and move silently. Both are stealth related, so it should apply to both.

About the hold animation: it also works on creatures immune to hold, for example elementals. I've often noticed enemies casting hold on my elementals. They're not affected, but the animation still plays.

 

Are Trolls supposed to be immune to the Stun effect of C'fury?

Assassins do get 15 skill points on my game, per level.

 

OK, so I misunderstood you; I thought that when you wrote of some "inconsistencies" that should not be corrected, this was what you meant? That it wasn't "all or nothing"?

(And I assumed the inconsistencies - that's a hard word! - were actually things introduced to the game after the manual was printed, not bugs in the coding.)

My (slightly longer, I thought I wouldn't have to write this all) opinions. Please, do read them, and don't scoff at me for repetition, OK? And also, many or the reasons are actually more "philosophical" than in those little numbers that stand behind them... don't get angry, OK?


The Wizard Slayer and the Jester I thought to be underpowered, so that I advocated a mightier version. To be frank, I never played the Wizard Slayer, but there is a "Does anyone like the Slayer?" thread somewhere here even now.

The Stalker and Beast Master stealth are, I think, explained by Volar Blackmane (wasn't sure if to mention this, since I have a localized version of the game, and the wording might have been a little different) - keep, if stealth=move silently+hide in shadows, there is no issue.

The Stalker backstab: well, I now change my opinion: the Ranger is supposed to finish SoA at 17th level, so that's a bit of a short play with the 3x backstab if someone plays with a full party and misses on some quest (as in, playing first time, on his own, without walkthroughs and all). So, just for greater player fun, keep (of course, in comes the matter of the ToB patch).

The Cavalier I advocated to keep just for the reason I gave; if the guy is supposed to fight dragons and the such, he should be pretty resistant to their charm, aye? And, he is immune to morale failure, and don't tell me that thinking that someone you are fighting is so really attractive I probably shouldn't fight them doesn't constitute a morale failure.

The Archer is more a combat fighter than an ecologist, unlike the Beast Master and Stalker, or am I wrong? A walking bow instead of an animal friend. Can't it be that this was some attempt to balance the three kits?

The Barbarian: well, saving throws are supposed to be connected to WIS (I never grasped their meaning, there is no table that states which way they are supposed to go, and what the bonuses are, in the local manual); if he is enraged - and he is supposed to be some sort of "primitive" fighter, not an elegant and refined one - he probably "rages" on, blindly striking what's before him, and is worse on the defensive, and his mind is more susceptible to magic. So keep the penalty.


What's remaining? The Blade, the Kensai, the Bounty Hunter, the two Priests? Oh, sheesh.

The Kensai: this is really weird, I like division by 4 without any remainders, so change.
Priest of Helm: so it's a long sword instead of a bastard? Really no opinion about this, I'd give this to the player (and so change), but that's about my whole justification.
Priest of Lathander: change the display to show the "truth".
Bounty Hunter: I would NOT want a dragon to be held by a trap; but there's this little point about "save". Change or keep, no real idea.
And the Blade: in my manual there is nothing about not working with Haste. And I really can't see any reason why the Blade could not be Hasted.

(And yes, I do like Haer'Dalis.)

The only thing I can offer about the Fighter is: a Fighter is not the only class that can get past specialisation... the Fighter is the only class that can get to Grand Mastery in a weapon?
And perhaps a fighting style is not quite the same as a weapon specialisation, after all?

Sorry if that got boring. If it's all "all or nothing", I advocate keeping all.
As if my opinion mattered.

Random Quote:
And you, my king, as usually will represent the Highest Authority of Lorien: show yourself to the nation, sign the decrees, and all that.
- Galadriel to her husband

 

A small piece of advice to you Extremist, the 2% Magic resistance for Wizard Slayer is because of ToB, you will se this if you would bother to check te instruction manual for ToB, it clearly states that the magic resistance is CHANGED to 2%.

[This message has been edited by PhoenixM (edited April 25, 2002).]

 

Stealth is in fact used by Bioware as a term for Move Silently effect and in fact description of Ring of Clumsiness made me to be suspicious on it. In it's description says "Stealth: reduced by 50%", and it really does affect only Move Silently. But there is a spot I've missed previously, and that is Familiars.
In Find Familiar spell you may spot that Ferret has "40% Hide in Shadows/Move Silently" and Rabbit has "30% Hide in Shadows/Move Silently". But when you summon Ferret or Rabbit and place them in the pocket you may read in pocketfamiliar description that ferret "Has a 40% stealth ability" and rabbit has "30% stealth ability". This means that you're absolutely right. Stealth from descriptions is not the same as SKILLSTEALTH (this term is used inside BGmain.exe for Move Silently), but it is both Hide in Shadows and Move Silently.
All right. I won't change these for kits. But then again, this means Ring of Clumsiness must be fixed to affect both skills! *shrug*

About elementals – in the game they are in fact not immune to all types of hold, but some types of hold won't affect them. The problem is because the same elemental is sometimes defined as monster, sometimes as humanoid and sometimes as giant humanoid. Hold Person will hold only the one which is defined as humanoid, but it won't affect those which are defined as monster or as giant humanoid. But the linked animation will play on all of them no matter the type of creature! This is not only the case with elementals. Cast Hold Person on any animal or undead or something that is not humanoid (otyugh comes in mind...lol), it won't be held, but the graphical effect will be applied if creature doesn't save vs spells.
Maybe this can be solved with applying the linked effect (EFF file) only on certain type of creatures (in our case – humanoids) like it is used in items that deal bonus damage only against certain type of creatures. This file would contain the applying of the graphical effect, of course which would be in fact rejected if the creature is not of the type EFF file should apply on. I'm however not sure if this will work, but I'll try it and post if it does work. Of course, if it works, it'll be definetly included in SPfixpack.
The only what is left to ask here is: What type of creatures are elementals actually? Monsters or Humanoids or something else? Should it be possible to hold them by Hold Person? BG2 manual says nothing about them, can someone check that in (lord, I hate that thing more than anything) ad&d PHB?

Trolls in BG2 are generally immune to Hold, Stun, Sleep, Charm, Domination, Freeblemind and Fear.
Thanks for info on Assasins!

No, no, no... What I was trying to say is that if I know something is bugged at one place, I'll check and fix that thing in every places in the game, not only in that one. That is not "all or nothing". It may happen I miss to spot it somewhere, but I certainly won't out of lazyness fix it only at that one spot. OK?
See in my previous post about Bioware – they did fixed the "poisoned" icon for Cavalier, but nowhere else (for example original Ring of Gaxx gives you immunity to poison, but if you were attacked by poison you'll still see the icon as if you are poisoned although you aren't poisoned). That is what I ment to say. I can't allow that one bug is not fixed in all places it appears. Unless I miss to spot it somewhere, of course. I don't have Bioware's nifty utils to check/fix everything in a split second, I have to use hex editor over BIF files and search for possible byte combinations, and then recheck it all in IEexplorer and sometimes also from within the game etc, etc... But, that's only my problem, don't you worry about that, right?
Inconsistencies I've posted up there in Section2 are posted because I'm not sure if something is a bug or not. The SPfixpack's prime goal is to serve SP members. That's why I'm asking SP members to clarify me if something in their (your) opinion is a bug or not. Maybe something that members believe is a bug wasn't Bioware designers' original idea, but sorry 'bout that, Boiware had more than enough of time to fix all bugs. Not to mention the descriptions. You get completely NEW dialog.tlk file inside the final patch which contains all descriptions in the game. If Bioware haven't corrected the descriptions, I should take all of them are 100% correct, and besides that who am I to question Bioware?
Anyway, all SP members' opinions, even "philosophical" ones, as you call it, will be taken in consideration. I think I did the right thing when posting this thread instead of just fixing what doesn't work as description says. Just spot the conclusion about "stealth bonus".
And now about your arguments...
The Wizard Slayer definetly is underpowered and as Nobleman said, it's not logical Monk gets the magic resistance better than WS. I'll leave it as it is: 2% MR per level, 25% CF per successful hit.
For the Stalker backstab you're absolutely right, I'll skip this for SoA because of the XP cap. Remind me to check/fix this when I start the ToB fixpack though!
I guess you're also right about Cavalier's charm immunity. I don't know for all dragons, but I remember that Firkraag definetly did charmed someone in my party! Right, that also stays as it is no matter the lack of note about it in description.
Hehe, I do like your Barbarian's WIS opinion... Right, I'll leave the penalty as it is unless someone appears with better argument.

Kensai is definetly going to change, that will force the (powergamer) player to earn at least one more level after starting the new game before dualclassing to mage.
/me does the happy dance
Sword of seeking is classified as Long Sword, but BG2 is not ad&d. I will change the sword damage to 2-8 as it is in description, only what you still need to tell me is should I use 1d7+1 or 2d4? thehehe
Priest of Lathander's in fact "decoration" is also to be fixed. There is no reason to confuse players who would seek for to hit bonus on records screen.

I'm unsure for the Archer though. Personally I never even used that rangers' special ability... I want more opinions about this one!
It is true that manual says nothing about not Haste vs Blade's Spin. But description does. For Bounty Hunter traps because I can't take your argument – dragons can't be held, hehe... We'll see what others say.
Jester underpowered? I'm not sure. It is just ordinary bard with a song different than in normal bard. Hmmm... Opinions people!

For specializations I will say only that certain classes can't specialize in styles just as they can't specialize in weapons. For example thief – he may only get proficient in weapons, but also in weapon styles.
But all classes that can get ** in majority of weapons, can also get ** in styles. But why they can get *** for two-weapons style? Besides that, this is not the same for all classes. For example, cleric/ranger can get max ** in two-weapons. But why can ranger get ***?
Also what is confusing me more is strict notation in Blade's description: "May place 3 slots into two weapon fighting style". I mean, if it is available for almost all classes, why is it specially noted in Blade's description as a benefit of that Kit?!
Grand mastery should be generally exclusive benefit for fighters, but note that in BG2 it is not so, for example Archer who is in fact Ranger may go for ***** in bows.
I do need more opinions about this "3 stars" possibility in two-weapon style for classes that are not fighters!!
I mean, if F/M/T can have *** in two weapons style, then F/M/C should have it too, don't you think? And F/M/C in fact can get max ** in two weapons style in case you didn't know.
But on what logic pallies my get *** in two-weapons too?

Sorry for this is going to sound hostile, but there is no other way to say it.
I'm not making ToB from SoA. I don't care for ToB manual nor ToB issues, otherwise I would have changed Cloak of Mirroring first.
SoA is SoA and anything that is forced up or down with ToB installation is not of my concern here.

If you play SoA areas with ToB installed, I'm very sorry to hear that. I'm not currently working on all those bugs you get in SoA areas with ToB installed. When I get to that, then and only then I'll check up ToB manual. For now, I'm stuck with SoA manual, SoA readme file and SoA final patch readme file. Sorry.

 

One more post and I'm silent, I promise.

You seem to capture well the points of which I'm convinced, and those of which I'm a lot less convinced. (i.e. Archer, Bounty Hunter, Jester: indeed, the more I think of it, the more I'm convinced that maybe the Bounty Hunter should be as he is, and the Archer changed. Only I really don't think that many Archers will even bother to charm animals instead of shooting them with their ***** in bows...) And you are right, Haste+Offensive Spin is probably overkill. 'm sad, but it's only fair. Probably.


About the Seeking Sword: I know BG2 is not ad&d, and I know nothing of ad&d, and I didn't want to appear as though I knew anything about it, or appeal to my non-existent knowledge, I was just making sure I was at least hazily aware what I was talking about.
I would just love to see a seven-sided die.
2d4: E(X)=5; s=2,5; sigma=2,(6)
1d7+1: E(X)=5; s=2; sigma=2,(3)
That's almost no difference. But I guess it was rather meant the 2d4 way?


About specializations:
Sorry I forgot about the Archer. I'm writing things from memory, I last saw BG2 some two months ago.
This thing "May place three slots into two weapon fighting style" is also in the Swashbuckler's description. Perhaps it is accentuated because otherwise some first-time players would not even try to put *** in two weapon fighting, knowing that Thieves and Bards cannot do this? I know that I would probably have missed a lot of things on my first go if they hadn't been SPELLT LIKE THIS in the game. Then perhaps it's just me.


The following is a rather loose theory, and one I only half-believe in. And it involves a lot of "psychology":

The classes that can get *** in two weapon fighting are - well - fighter-type classes, i.e.:
Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Barbarian, Swashbuckler (whom some call already a f/t), Blade (a fighter-type bard), f/t, f/c, f/m (because of the fighter part?), f/m/t (perhaps because a Swashbuckler/Mage can do this: to balance the dual-classed character with the multi-classed?)

The Ranger/Cleric gets a LOT of additional spells in return for this one *, and the F/M/C is - in the end - much more of a spellcaster than a Fighter... if someone plays these two classes, he should be prepared to use the tactics of a spellcaster?

'm silent now, as promised.

 

Monster stats aren't in the AD&D player's handbook, but in the AD&D monstrous manual. And there are no creature types in the monstrous manual In the new D&D monster manual, they're classed as elementals, if that helps.

Hold person only works on the smallest form, the spell description is: 'affects any humanoid form of human size or smaller', and as the elementals in BG2 always are in roughly humanoid shapes, it works on the smallest (human sized) one.

 

Seeking Sword is made. I've placed 2d4. Actually there is no difference with that and 1d7+1.

Also I've added that "charmed" icons ommision for cavalier.

For specializations, I'll just edit and quote some of your thoughts:

FMT is just as spellcaster as FMC. The only difference is that FMT can't cast spells under some armors, but! Not much later in the game he gets armors and robes, which makes him equally spellcaster as FMC. Why would FMT get *** then? Or, why wouldn't FMC get ** too? One more thing, Swashbuckler/cleric can also get *** just as Swashbuckler/mage.

I need more arguments. I'll place *** or ** in all MC fighter classes. Just bring me the most logical argument for ** vs ***.
Oh, and this still doesn't mean Pallies should have *** in two weapons style!!! More rant I need!!!

Volar!!! BG2 does not track the size of the monster...lol! How can I determine which Elemental is small and which not - especially for those that are of type "monster"? Those are of all sizes and shapes. You see, the engine places any animation you specify on any monster. For example Nishruu is originally in fact "giant humanoid" of race ogre - but the animation applied on it is of a mist!
Well, I'll think of something, I hoped that lame PHB will say that elementals are immune to hold, or at least air type ones.

btw, I've managed to fix the hold graphic effect applying on the wrong type of creatures. It will be included in next fixpack version along with fixes on kits.
But while testing that I almost got a stroke with Mindflayers' graphics effect...

Try this:
Equip anyone with Helm of Charm Protection (HELM06 - in case you don't have it in inventory). Get any of your clerics to memorize Free Action spell.
Summon Mindflayer from the console (MINDFL01) and let him cast his Psionic Blast.

What happens? The NPC who is equipped with Helm of Charm Protection if stunned does not display the stun animation?!?! What does immunity to CHARM and only charm have to do with Psionic Blast, don't ask me. NPC won't move, but there is no effect above his head because of this helm!
The problem gets even worse now. Cast Free Action on stunned NPC who got the stun animation above his/her head. A miracle! The NPC is now movable, but the stun animation still plays!
I'll kill myself...

No, I'll think twice before I buy anything made by Bioware ever again. Back to the fixing board I guess...

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited April 26, 2002).]

 

OK, the Seeking Sword thing is really weird. I mean, am I really mistaken? 1d7+1 and 2d4 should not be the same thing:

1d7+1: For x={2,3,4,5,6,7,8} the probability of getting this x is 1/7.
2d4: For x={2,8} the probability is 1/16; for x={3,7} the probability is 2/16; for x={4,6) the probability is 3/16; for x=5 the probability is 4/16. This means that in 7*16 trials, in the 1d7+1 case every x should be drawn 16 times, more or less, while in the 2d4 case x=5 should be drawn 28 times, while x=8 only 7 times. It's a totally different distribution, if I'm not wrong!

This was just for your information, since I'm a bit of a nitpicker myself. (I guess you already know my zodiac. )

And the other thing. Well, what I was trying to say was only:
(m=mage, c=cleric, d=druid, f=fighter, t=thief, s=swashbuckler, bl=blade, p=paladin, b=barbarian, r=ranger)

"Classes of abstraction", or whatever it's called in English:
S={m,c,d} (spellcaster-type; casting spells should be prevalent)
F={f,t,s,bl,p,b,r} (fighter-type; weapon fighting should be prevalent)

f/t is 0.5F+0.5F=F, fighter-type
f/c, f/m are 0.5F+0.5S, undecided
s/m, s/c are 0.5F+0.5S, undecided (and if s=f/t, this becomes 0.33F+0.33F+0.33S=0.67F+0.33S, fighter-type)
f/m/t is 0.33F+0.33S+0.33F=0.67F+0.33S, fighter-type

f/m/c is 0.33F+0.33S+0.33S=0.33F+0.67S, spellcaster-type

r is 1F, fighter-type
r/c is 0.5F+0.5S, but gets druid spells, which kind of makes it 0.33F+0.33S+0.33S, spellcaster-type

p is perhaps 0.6F, 0.4S (c+m, because of the Inquisitor's Dispel Magic and the such) up to 1F in some fights? Edit:forgot about immunities. Can't go up to 1F, but still I'd put this in the F class.

I have no idea where to put the bard; I guess it's more or less 0.2t (pickpocket), 0.3f, 0.5S (because of Lore, WIS and INT-connected; and the song, which is a bit like a spell, since he can't do anything else at the time). A blade has 0.25 normal pickpocket and some decrease in Lore, so the balance shifts a bit to the F part.

An fmt will never be equal to a spellcaster to an fmc, because on one hand, he has all those t abilities (in direct combat backstabbing is applicable, methinks), and on the other hand does not have the c spells. He is an equal m spells caster, but nothing else.

That's what I thought of. Not how these classes are/should be played. Just maths on abstract classes. And yes, we may disagree on how to add those F and S components (definitely not 0.33 each), but I guess it's more or less like this.

I wouldn't dare assume I know what you think, but I guess you look at f/m/c as an f with spells thrown in, while I look at it as m/c with some f abilities thrown in? Then, it's only fair that a person who occupies with magic mainly cannot have the same abilities as a fighter/thief, especially one who trains mainly for backstabbing and stealth, and only has a bit of magic in the coctail?
From your point of view, it's only just and fair that f/m/c be given a third *, but from this one it probably/definitely is not.


I would really like to help you in some other way than contradicting you at every point and being mildly annoying and not-understanding. But, LOL, when I wrote in my first post that my INT is not high enough, I meant that I, personally, would not even know how to start hex editing, and so I am amazed how you can actually understand the code; let alone filtering out what you need: that is an abstract I don't even think about! So, LOL, all I can do is wish you luck on your road to perfection. And this also means NOT killing yourself.

[This message has been edited by Istari (edited April 27, 2002).]