Templates

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Anybody here who already tried one of those Templates that are downloadable? They sounds quite interesting, but also a bit too powerful?
What are your opinions about the game balance, while putting these cuties in-game?

 

I think the Vamp one sounds pretty balanced, you know with that massive damage fom daylight. and it'd be pretty hard to play as well, seeing that not all npc's are out at night.

 

Hmph..right. That sounds fair.
Anyway, I downloaded them, and must say, they are very impressive
But too poerful as well
About the pictures that came with them: very cool! Some great character portraits, download them, te PORTAITS are really worth it!
I'm looking for trying these templates with some new characters, I think using those REALLY nasty improved opponents(CENSORED BY HIGHER POWERS) some of them will not strike at game-balance.

[This message has been edited by TGM (edited September 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by TGM (edited September 23, 2001).]

 

Hmm... TGM, there's some things you better not mention on this board (ToB-related stuff, for instance). There's people around who can get really mad with you if you do. Just thought I should warn you.

By the way, where can you get those portraits?

 

Allright, got your message

Anyway, U will find them here at sorcerers.net, just at the BG2 section.

And people - don't get mad about me Thanks.

 

Just edit your post, and remove the ToB content from it. That nifty button with the pencil on it, click it.

and for the templates, the idea is cool, but they are way overpowered, a lich can cast their array of spells in a matter of seconds. INSANE I tell, all that level 9 and 8 spells, if you sleep between each battle you can walk through the game like nothing happened. But very cool indeed.

Vampire on a monk, see them suffer, nasty combo.

 

Now I tried out some of these goodies, so I can tell my thoughts about this:

They are absolutely overpowered (as mentioned above), some creatures are even more powerful than their in-game version(for example the Lich and the Vampire)
This is a nice idea, but it surely needs to be worked on, for the optimal balance.
The requirements for the "transformations" are very low, sometimes absolutely insane (Vamp.- 15000 gold - you may have that amount of gold in the first chapters, with a low-level character)
The bonuses are too powerful(why are they better, than the original creatures stats, and abilities???)
However, if the requirements would be increased greatly (for example, the cost of the Lich transformation could be: 100.000Gold, 10 Diamonds, 10 Emerlds, 10 S.Saphires, 3 Rouge stones) and the templates would have weaknesses as well (just like the Vampire, or more) it could be quite a choice to have these developed or not. Or perhaps these could be connected to several quests as well.

Comments?

 

Increased requirements I definitely think is a must (like level and perhaps some stats, like int for lich and str for demon). Though 100K and a rouge stone (gold for transformation, and the stone could symbolize the container of your soul) seems ok.

and the death knight, I think you should become fallen first and then pay for the transformation. Stat increases for some of the classes might be a bit extreme (mostly vampire come to mind, can't remember the other ones that well). The +5 spells pr level for the lich is rather too much as well. (though nice for the powergamer

And some bugfixes would be nice too

[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 23, 2001).]

 

We could sit here and argue about how powerful they are all day or just enjoy them as the author intended. Some work had to go into those, they just didn't fall out of the sky

 

wow here's something I've obviously missed. When I hear templates, all I can think about are the templates in my c++ code

Searching SP for templates...

 

we could try reaching some sort of agreement of the powerscale, what should be toned down and up etc.

Sending him 20 different request might not lead to so much

[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

Those templates are kickass! :thumb up:
Overpowered, yes - but also fun!

Ok, Lok, since you suggested, you could be our "voice"! And we don't take "no" as an answer here, ain't we guys?

So Lok, notify this - Skeleton Warrior crashes is you force him in two-weapon equips. Two-handed weapon, ok. Two weapons at the same time... goodbye my game.

Also tell him that me, myself and I would like to see Anti-Paladin there, ok?

More will come after some more testing...

 

anti-paladins, cool thought


ok, as for a bug list, we could do that too.

Lich:
Problems with stacking AC properly (after shapeshifting I think)


Half-Fiend:
Summoned Fiend ally attacks you, and your members attack it(the fiend isn't controllable either), I don't think it can hurt you though, but it doesn't attack the enemy if you get too close. Some friend

[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

Hi to all,

I'm the creator of the Templates. I've read some comments about the fact that the templates are overpowered etc.

Well, I must say that how they were originally planned the requirements for these classes were much higher, for example the Lich should have 120000 gp and level 15 or more to could apply the Template, but then I've changed my mind because I think that in any case they are equilibrated none the less. For example in the case of the Vampire, it is true that you could apply the Template in a short time, but it is very difficult to play all the game only in the night hours, so I think that the low requirements on costs are well balanced.

Then a side fact: these templates are not invented by me, but are truly 3D&D templates and in some cases just because I thought that many of them were too powerful, I've invented specifications to apply them, but in the majority of cases these templates could be apply to characters without any specific (apart being evil for example).

Now about updates: since I've found some bugs, and I've seen the one reported here (and I've checked these templates in the extreme, believe me, but it is very difficult to find all glitches all alone) I will post a link where you could download the ultimate version (no need to disinstall).

There are some nasty bugs, beware: for example if you save and re-load the vampire and lich will lose their fist attack. The half-celestial and half-fiend will not more receive special abilities if they are exported and imported in another game.

Apart these bugs the patch will also include a real phylactery for the Lich, some new spells for high-level characters (mainly for ToB), shapeshifting, the new template Half-Dragon (that could shapeshift in a real one) and some other goodies.

In the meantime please send me all your impressions on how to make the templates more balanced, and I will include all these variations in the upcoming patch.

Thank you for your comments about my work, I've really appreciated all the critics.

Sincerely,
Lavir

[This message has been edited by Lavir (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

Yo, did any of you guys play the ninza?
I was it on a korean home page. Now this guys is hell strong. He has 6 uniq powers.
(I think?) Some thing about mastery of Martiel arts, mastery of fire, mastery of shadow and etc. This guy is like a fighter using magic. He also can do back stab.
But the bad thing is he is way to hard to control. He has to many magic(?) moves.
Such as some thing like the dancing flame where he can do the same damages like a fire ball with his fist. But its tohard to understand what your doing and you can't open your item bag for 1000 seconds? in other words you can't drink any potions.
You should try it. it is so cool unless its already in the american version?

 

Dear Forum,

As previously said I'm working at the patch/update of the Templates, so I thought that I would share what I'm planning to modify with this new release.

First of all I will get rid of the special ability to apply the templates, instead potions will be used. The potions will not change the characters status permanently but will give to the individual equipment to wear to change him/herself to that particular template. This means that it will now possible to return to the normal status after you have applied a template (a note about vampires: this doesn't mean that to walk in the daylight it will suffice to remove the object changing the character to a vampire, since the potion will change the blood of the person; the only way to revert is to go to the Temple of Helm and buy an expensive antidote, but this is a possible solution, ideas are welcome), and that you can give the equipment to another member of the group if s/he will have the qualities to use it.

Then, about raising specifications for the templates: now the Lich needs 3 rogue stones (there are 4 in all the game, and one is needed, without spoilers, for an event) and 100.000 gold points, since probably it is the more powerful template. The vampire I think will remain in this way since the daylight disavantage. For the half-fiend and half-celestial I will raise the amount of experience needed and the gold points spent, and, maybe, I will do something completely different as for example a quest to obtain the template, but I don't know for sure since it will require a lot of work and maybe it is not worth it. Again, ideas are apreciated. For the Death Knight now it will be needed to be a fallen paladin before applying the template and also in this case the things needed will be more difficult to acquire (I have planned to let characters have templates only after they have literally found items very difficult to find in the game).

Now to the things added: the new template Half-Dragon will be very funny to play, since the character will be able to polymorph in a dragon once every 5 days, and chosing the race of the dragon itself change the immunities and special abilities of the template itself. Then some new spells for the Lich and some new special abilities (always respection the 3D&D edition rules) for Skeleton Warriors, Death Knight and Vampire.

I've already solved the bug of the shapeshifting with the Lich, the bug of the two handed weapons and equiping the off-hand, and the ones I've found in testing, and I've changed things so to have the templates be fully compatible with ToB, and I've also included some special abilities for the high levels.

I think the patch will be ready at the end of this week, but, I'm sorry to say this, you must recreate the characters you want to apply the templates to, because the new patch will not work correctly with old templates already applied. I've tried to do elsewhere but the bugs where too strong to cover them without having to recreate a character. However it is now possible to apply the templates also to NPC characters, so I think that the bad new is a bit lowered by the good ones.

So, now I will go at work

Sincerely,
Lavir.

 

ooh, half-dragon, the template I missed the most!

Hope it all turn out well for ya, this sounds great indeed

 

I must spam this:

Lavir - YOU RULE!!!