Short bow or Crossbow 4 thief?

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I found the bow that fires 3 per round from that beastmaster guy with the tiger. Is that the best one for a thief to use? Seems crossbows are so slow in firing but which is best?

 

Anything with extra attacks is good, especially for a class that only gets 1 attack per round normally. I'd say stick with the Tuigin shortbow from the beastmaster guy.

 

Tuigan is definitely the best for a thief. Yoshimo gets it early, and passes it on to Imoen.

 

yes stick with that one, and later you can use the cross bow from WC when fighting trolls, or use flame/poison arrows.
not necesary when using an assasin though

 

Gesen's makes a really nice bow for a thief too. I think you can get a couple attacks a round out of it and the electric arrows it fires can be nice.

 

im pretty sure Gesens is the standard 1 attack per round. Tuigans or the light crossbow of speed are the best choices for a thief, and you can use fire arrows/firetooth for trolls.

 

But I know Imoen and Nalia and my PC thief can get 2 attacks per round with Gesen, that other magic shortbow I can't remember the name of that you buy in Trademeet and normal shortbows.

 

Tuigan = 3 ApR
LCoS and any long or short bow (this includes Gesen) except Tuigan = 2 ApR
Any crossbow except the LCoS = 1 ApR

What I'm surprised people haven't mentioned yet are the magical throwing daggers, because I remember more than a few talking about their thieves using them. Throwing daggers have two attacks per round (like bows), but do less damage, which is why I stick to bows. There are also magical darts (the +3 returning Crimson Dart is easy to get very early), which have three attacks per round, but do even less damage than daggers.

 

Crossbow of speed is nifty, it adds +1 attack per round.

Crossbow ammunition is so much better. Look at the ammo types. Arrows of fire is extremely sucky (save allowed). BUT electrical bolts does 4d4 additional damage per hit, with a save vs breath for half. They do massive damage, couple it with a GWW attack and you have a 40d4 bonus damage. Major ouchies. An improved hasted thief can still make four attacks per round with CoSpeed.

Those bolts which do poison damage do tons of damage upon a failed save vs death. Plus, they are not that rare, I don't know if this is due to my mods or not but Jan never runs out of electric or poison bolts.

Not to mention that base damage of a crossbow bolt is 1d8, even 1d10 in some cases. Arrows are always 1d6. Plus magical bows do not generaly enhance the damage, but each and every heavy crossbow will give a tremendous bonus to damage and accuracy. Which reminds me, Crossbow of Accuracy (found in Unseeing Eye quest IIRC, I can not be sure) is the ultimate weapon for those who have lousy THAC0s.

 

Go for both. You will find great ammo for crossbows and a +4 crossbow. Tanshurons bow gives you limitless ammo and its +3. In my experience the Tuigan bow is best left for Mazzy or an archer pc.

 

While that may be how it is in the game (no 1d10's, BTW), it is wildly incorrect. Light crossbow bolts should do 1d4, and heavy crossbow bolts should do 1d4+1/1d6+1 (probably just shifted to 1d6 for game mechanics). Meanwhile, there are flight arrows for bows, which give longer range but only do 1d6 damage, and sheaf arrows, which do 1d8 damage. *This has been a 2e lesson from Felinoid. If you'd like to hear more, press '1' now.*

 

@Bassil
Why? Mazzy or any ranger/fighter/paladin pc would have natural 3 attacks per round, theres no need for tuigan short bow. You'd be better off rushing down to WK early and picking up firetooth.

 

Gesens unless you use arrows with it is limitless in it's ammo as well once you get it. There are only a few things that it can't hit on it's own and there are only a few monsters that resist the electrical damage.

 

Short and long bows: 2 attacks per round, 3 for Tuigan
If Tansheron's and Gesen's bows are equipped with arrows, their total damage and thac0 becomes the damage and thac0 of the bow plus whatever arrows are equipped. In addition warriors that get 1/2 extra attack at 7th lvl and another 1/2 extra attack at 13th lvl will get the extra attack when those 2 bows are equipped with arrows, but will NOT get it when those bows fire their normal unlimited arrows. There is NO damage bonus received from Strength. In addition warriors will receive -2 thac0 penalty when using the bows' unlimited arrows.

Crossbows: 1 attack per round, 2 for Light Crossbow of Speed
Firetooth's damage, thac0 and # of attacks (warriors) are determined the same way as for Tansheron's and Gesen's.

Slings: 1 attack per round
ALL slings get damage bonus from Strength, not just Sling of Seeking, with an exception for Everard when using its own unlimited bullets and when any sling is using normal non enchanted bullets. Otherwise Everard's damage, thac0 and # of attacks (warriors) are determined the same way as for Firetooth, Tansheron's and Gesen's. When it is equipped with enchanted bullets it also gets damage bonus from Strength just like all other slings. Thac0 is determined from Dexterity, just like all others ranged weapons.

Throwing Daggers: 2 attacks per round
Throwing Daggers get no damage bonus from Strength.

Darts: 3 attacks per round
Darts get no damage bonus from Strength.

Throwing Axes and Hammer: 1 attack per round
They both get damage bonus from Strength. Thac0 is determined from Dexterity.

The best ranged weapons then would be Gesen's bow, Everard's sling, Erinne's sling (ToB), Fire Tooth dagger, Firetooth crossbow (ToB), Dwarven Thrower hammer and K'logarath axe (ToB).

I'll do some math below to show some useful numbers using +2 arrows, bolts and bullets. Everard's sling does practically the same damage as Erinne's sling, both having the same Thac0, but Everard's is available at the start of the game, so I'll exclude Erinne's sling from the list. The damage is also about the same for K'logarath's axe and Dwarven Thrower hammer, but K'logarath's is also not available until ToB so I'll also exclude it from the list. K'logarath's has 1 Thac0 better than Dwarven Thrower, but blunt is much better. I'll use the nonupgraded Firetooth crossbow, which is also available from the start of the game.
DPR = Damage Per Round (average)
STR = Strength

Mages:
Everard's Sling: -7 Thac0, 10 DPR (20 w/ Haste), 6-16 STR
Everard's Sling: -7 Thac0, 12 DPR (24 w/ Haste), 18 STR
Everard's Sling: -7 Thac0, 17 DPR (34 w/ Haste), 19 STR
Fire Tooth Dagger: -3 Thac0, 19 DPR (28.5 w/ Haste)

Thieves:
Slings and Daggers same as above
Firetooth Crossbow: -8 Thac0, 15 DPR (30 w/Haste)
Gesen's Bow: -6 Thac0, 20 DPR (30 w/Haste)

Clerics/Druids:
Slings as above

Warriors 13th lvl and up, Specialization or Grand Mastery, Haste:
Gesen's Bow: -6 Thac0, 45 DPR (70 w/ Improved Haste)
Firetooth Crossbow: -8 Thac0, 52.5 DPR (75 w/ Improved Haste)
Dwarven Thrower: -3 Thac0, 49 DPR (70 w/ Improved Haste), 18/00 STR
Dwarven Thrower: -3 Thac0, 52.5 DPR (75 w/ Improved Haste), 19 STR
Dwarven Thrower: -3 Thac0, 59.5 DPR (85 w/ Improved Haste), 21 STR
Everard's Sling: -7 Thac0, 56 DPR (80 w/ Improved Haste), 18/00 STR
Everard's Sling: -7 Thac0, 59.5 DPR (85 w/ Improved Haste), 19 STR
Everard's Sling: -7 Thac0, 66.5 DPR (95 w/ Improved Haste), 21 STR

GWW favors slower weapons, so bows for warriors are at a disadvantage at high levels.

When using ammunition with Gesen's, Tansheron's, Firetooth or Everard's the Thac0 of the weapon gets replaced with that of the ammunition. Certain enemies require magical weapons with +4 Thac0 or greater. In those cases it is better to use Gesen's, Firetooth and Everard's automatic ammunition. Gesen's and Firetooth's elemental damage will pierce Stoneskin with or without arrows. Otherwise when using ammunition on those weapons the Thac0 that is used to determine the hit rolls still benefits from the weapon Thac0 bonus plus that of the ammunition.

 

Xbows win in the end if you get the pulse ammo from the Big Metal Unit. It grants 5 attacks with the firetooth which is just crazy good. However that is a very late game event so really you might as well pick another weapon for the first 90% of the game and just use one of your later profs on Xbow.