IWD2-4Dummies (Party Guide)

Remove all ads!

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/dl.php?s=IWD2&f=IWD2/IWD2-4dummies.zip

I'm a great fan of this guide for party creation and I recommend it for newbies. I think I can make some suggestions/improvements, especially if someone wants to focus more on normal mode and less on multi-classing:

1. Give Martial Weapon Proficiency: Axe to one cleric and Martial Weapon Proficiency: Greatsword to the other. These are very beneficial early on, I definitely prefer them to Power Attack/Cleave. Battleguard of Tempus lets you start with the 2 Axe feats, which is cool, but the spells are lackluster and their aren't that many great feats anyway.

2. The Druid should be a Deep Gnome. This way, you don't have to take the Monk level and you get SR, Mirror Image(!) and Invisibility.

3. The Clerics should also be Deep Gnomes! The guide has Deep Gnomes ranked last for Clerics, but Mirror Image, +2 Wisdom and +4 AC bonus are huge. Their only drawback is that Cleric is not a favored class.

4. The Rogue levels for the Deep Gnome Illusionist are superfluous, at least early on. A single classed wizard with 18+ int can do the job of a rogue with no rogue levels even with only 1 point in open locks, disable device, etc.

5. I'd get SF and GSF Evocation early on the Bard over Armored Arcana and Expertise. This isn't critical by any means.

6. I think Demarch of Mask is underrated in the guide. The spells are great, especially for tanks. coineineagh seems to love the elemental feats/blaster clerics, but I like Dreadmaster and Demarch. Tempus is great for the feats, but I'd rather just take the feats and get a better spell list from another god.

So, my modded 6-man party would be:

Deep Gnome Dreadmaster of Bane w/ Martial Weapon: Great Sword
Deep Gnome Demarch of Mask w/ Martial Weapon: Axe
Deep Gnome Druid (start with Martial Weapon: Polearm)
Deep Gnome Illusionist
Drow Bard
Human Sorcerer

 

I believe coineineagh ranks Deep Gnomes last for clerics because he's factoring in early game vs late game along with possible XP penalties. It's true that stats-wise Deep Gnomes are superior - but early game is usually considered the hardest part of IWDII. The point is definitely contestable, though, especially if you've already finished the game a few times.

Personally I think there's just too many ways to make up for the bonuses Deep Gnomes get late game. If you use summons to make up for not using a decoy/tank you won't even need sky high AC on your cleric or druid.

 

It has been a long time since I have played this game but what spells are the bard casting that makes spell focus feats worth it for them specifically evocation?

 

IME, Deep Gnome heavy parties are fine in the early game and I play no-reloads. Between mirror image and +4 AC bonus, they're impossible to hit and they can go invisible when in trouble.

 

Literally only Chromatic Orb, it's just that this spell is so strong and the other feats are so insignificant that it's worth it just for that spell.

---------- Added 1 hours, 13 minutes and 25 seconds later... ----------

I don't think the early game is that hard with Deep Gnomes and I play no-reloads. If you want to make the early game easier, go with Drow Transmuter instead of Deep Gnome Illusionist. 1000 XP away from XL2 instead of 5000, and you get +2 Int and access to Necromancy spells.

 

Don't svirfneblin have like LA +3? For the pitiful stat bonuses which they get, that is incredibly suboptimal. Why would anyone recommend that? And for 4 characters, no less?

I know there's plenty of XP in the game, but all that LA is just crippling the party throughout most of the game in exchange for some defensive abilities.

 

This would be true if not for dynamic experience adjustment. Basically, the amount of experience points you receive depends on the average level of your party. Parties with a low average level earn more experience points from the same monsters than parties with a higher average level. Even parties with all deep gnomes @ LA+3 end up with the same experience levels as LA 0 parties.

Additionally, any LA 0 characters you include in a party with LA1-3 level characters will advance faster than they would in a party with other LA 0 characters. When you factor in the special benefits of Drow and Deep Gnomes, it's pretty much a no brainer to stack your party with them if you don't mind a slightly harder early game. If you want an easier earlier game, you can go 1/2 and 1/2 ECL 0 and ECL 3 characters so that your ECL 0 characters will get fast access to higher level spells and abilities but your tanks are still Deep Gnomes:

Deep Gnome Demarch of Mask
Deep Gnome Druid
Deep Gnome Illusionist
Human Bard
Human Sorcerer
Shield Dwarf Dreadmaster of Bane

Bards, Clerics, Druids and Sorcerers benefit from faster levelling so they're your main candidates to make humans. Of these, Bards and Sorcerers benefit the least from Drow and Deep Gnome abilities. Martial classes and rogues should certainly be Deep Gnomes or at least Drow because they benefit less from levelling than casters. Clerics/Druids are in between because they're solid tanks, but they also want to gain access to higher level spells as fast as possible.

 

The benefits of a poorly implemented system.

I'll stick to my human duo.

 

The site deleted my posts because I included the link to IWD24Dummies on this site.

Cliffs notes: I like the IWD24Dummies guide in the downloads section, but I think some improvements can be made:

1. Deep Gnomes instead of Humans for Cleric/Druid. Deep Gnome mirror image and +4 AC are great for tanks. +2 Wisdom good for cleric/druid. Saves boost+spell reistance for everyone. All this comes without interrupting spell progression like dipping other classes.

2. Demarch of mask underrated--has great spells for tanks. Elemental feats aren't worth going human--gives up too much tanking ability for 20% damage increase on blast spells.

3. All clerics should have martial weapon: axe or great sword proficiency for early game. These seem better than power attack and cleave

3. Rogue level is unnecessary for the illusionist. A straight illusionist can cover the thief skills. Subbing sorcerer for wizard and using a high-int bard for rogue skills might be an even better option.

Here is the Jeff W UPP

Deep Gnome Demarch of Mask w/ Martial Weapon: Axe
Deep Gnome Dreadmaster of Bane w/ Martial Weapon: Great Sword
Deep Gnome Druid
Human Bard
Human Sorcerer
Human Sorcerer (Optional: Drow Diviner or Deep Gnome Illusionist)

 

Sound reasoning, but DGs have -2STR and -3ECL, which impairs them a great deal.
As for their favoured class, they are limited to Illusionist. You can make a single class DG Fighter, for example, but you can't feasibly mix in a single class level of another class for its mix-in bonuses. The DG bonuses are comparable to the benefits of mixing in another class, but the penalty is already -3, and you don't get to choose what you mix in.

Moving to casters such as clerics, a single-class DG cleric gets an additional impairment, in that it has no Martial Weapon feats access. You can't cheese it with a mix-in of a warrior class, so you must choose MWFs or go without.

I gave the races a great deal of thought, DGs included. All things considered, I decided to put DGs in the bottom because of the importance of multiclass options and leveling speed. I do like your idea of letting DG warriors raise the comparative leveling speed of your casters, but -2STR remains an issue there.

 

Clerics can take Martial Weapons Proficiency feats... just not specialization.

16 strength isn't a problem. In your guide, with Lizzt Do'Urden you start with 18 str 16 con and end up with 18 str 26 con. Since DG start with 16 str 18 con, you can just put your first two stat points into str and you'll be equal with the drow already on stats.

The only drawback of DG for cleric is they can't multiclass easily... this isn't a problem as multiclassing isn't really beneficial until well into HOF mode. I keep all my casters pure until they can cast 9th level spells.

 

DGs have to waste Feats on MWF from the get go and it will take 8 levels for the DG to equal the Drow stat-wise. Going on the premise that the early game is the hardest, a.k.a. the early levels like 1-8, I would think that is why Coin left DGs out of the Cleric recommendations.

Like some of your ideas though. I have conquered with 6 DGs using a typical "D&D style balanced party" of 3Warriors and 1 each of Rogue/Divine Caster/Arcane caster types. Tough at some points. Several reloads and jumps back through time via save files to finish though. Never on a No-reload game. HoF is too hard for that, at least for me. I don't enjoy that type of grind. I love how IWD2 puts DGs on top as they seem mighty different in PnP.

 

If you're worried about feats, just take Battleguard of Tempus. The advantages of other domains really aren't that big a deal and Tempus is the best until you get to high levels. For a normal mode game I'd rank the gods:

Tempus
Mask
Bane
The rest

I encourage you to try no-reload. No-reload games force you to develop tactical perfection and you'll probably find that the game isn't as hard as you thought it was after some early growing pains.

You don't necessarily have to do HOF mode--tbh HOF is a grind and more interesting as a thought experiment for party optimization. The only fun I get out of HOF mode is starting it at L1.