Improved invisibility spell?

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My wizard had 7 level 4 spells after my party finished business with Zack, after the ice temple. Checking saves before the ice temple at first contact with Zack after saving him, and after the ice temple, Zack's inventory does not show any of the 3 spells in your picture. There are no spells above level 3. Strange.

I'm using v2.01, no mods. Party is level 7 cleric, barbarian, fighter, rogue, level 8 paladin and wizard, when rescuing Zack, level 9 wizard, level 10 paladin, others are level 11. Don't know if that affects it.

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OK, ran through the dialog with different characters. I can get access to a much smaller inventory with Zack, and it includes those spells, but it depends on which character's asking, and the dialog choices. I have to ask to see his inventory by reminded him I just saved his life, and not tell him that I found his spider. Charisma wasn't a factor -- this worked for my drow wizard with -3.

This worked for any character but my paladin (Charisma 20). If the paladin has the first dialog with him, whether he tells about the spider or not, Zack's inventory is greatly expanded, and there are no spells above level 3. Anyone else asking after that gets the expanded inventory. If any character tells him that his spider was found, he gets the expanded inventory, and anyone else asking after that gets the expanded inventory.

This makes me wonder if there are similar situations with the inventories of any other merchants.

 

Let look at his dialogue file

Trigger (114) Action (74)
Global("41RescueQuest","GLOBAL",2) StartStore("41Zack3",Protagonist) // Zack's Collectibles

Trigger (115) Action (75)
Global("41RescueQuest","GLOBAL",3) StartStore("41Zack2",Protagonist) // Zack's Collectibles

Trigger (116) Action (76)
Global("41RescueQuest","GLOBAL",4) StartStore("41Zack1",Protagonist) // Zack's Collectibles

Unfortunatly I don't fully understand the Globals but it does seem that Zack has a complex store setup, he actually has 3 .STO files listing all sorts of items for sale.

Testing it out I've got a rough guide on how to deal with him.

You can tell which store you have by the cost to identify items (Thyrm extract bottle can be used for this)

Store 41Zack1 charges 200 to identify, 41Zack2 is 100 and 41Zack3 is 50 Gold per identify. (Store 1 also does not offer Healing)

The gist of it is that Store 1 is if you are rude to him, Store 2 if you say "Well, we did save your life. Doesn't that count for something?" (this is the polite choice)
Store 3 has a new list of items which replaces the original list (Stores 1 or 2) and only happens after you rescue the spider.

Store 1 and 2 have the same items for sale but the rude store offers a worse deal (he charges more and buys items from you for less)

Store 3 has the same sale price but buys stuff for even more so sell to him after you rescue the spider.

Store 3 has some similar items for sale and since the list is replacing rather than adding new stock you can exploit this and for example buy 2 "boots of avoidance" this also means anything you sell to store 1 or 2 (before rescuing the spider) you cannot buy it back.


Either way if you buy from him when you met him you can get those scrolls in that image I posted, if you tell him you already found the spider BEFORE you see his store for the first time it will skip 1 and 2 and go straight to 3 which does not sell the scroll.

 

Store 3 must be what the paladin gets, regardless of dialog options. Presumably there's a setting that restricts this class (or Aasimar, since he's my only one) to that store.

With a few more tries, I discovered that if another character opens dialog and gets what I assume is Store 2 (w/level 4 spells), then the paladin can get that, until Zack is told that the spider is found. The best for me was to get access to Store 2 with the initial dialog from another character, then use the paladin (Charisma 20) to get the best prices.

Thanks a lot for your help, guys.

 

Digging deeper I found nothing specific to the paladin or any other class conditions in his DLG file, however....


You don't seem very grateful for a person whose life we just saved. If it weren't for us you might've been coming out of that worm's back end right now.
CheckSkillGT(Protagonist,10,Diplomacy)

Listen, gnome, we just saved your life, so stop crying about some foolish spider and help us figure out what's going on here!
CheckSkillGT(Protagonist,10,Diplomacy)

It seems like you can get away with rude options if your Diplomacy skill is high enough.

In the test that I did it was a Charisma 10 character with no skills in Diplomacy, that last line for me actually provokes a fight to occur.

I learned from trial and error when looking into quest rewards that SkillLT and SkillGT is Lesser than / Greater than the value of X.

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Reminds me of bodahn feddic in dragon age origins where the first party camp map is a different instance from the regular one so you can actually buy the same things from him twice if you have the money in that first meeting.

 

Hadn't tried "Listen, gnome" from the paladin before, but it works to get the limited inventory with the level 4 spells. It's the only option that does this for him. Interestingly, the prices are just as good as using another character with the "grateful" dialog choice to get the desired inventory, then using the paladin to shop. It hadn't occurred to me to use a paladin to intimidate a non-adversarial NPC that I just rescued.

 

The dwarf in the underdark can be bullied into offering better prices on his stuff (buy/sell) with the right combo of speech skills and the Intelligence score.

Nym has 2 stores but that is because of the Avarine Decanter being involved as a bonus merchant (like an early example of on disc DLC type situation)

Following from that Bashshar's Decanter has 3 stores with different items listed, not sure what that is based on and I don't feel keen to look to closely into it ATM.

*edit*
Store 1 has a ring of information, store 2 has a ring of energy, store 3 has the ring of invisibility.

I think now this is just the factor that after 3 sessions Bashshar leaves and this is nothing more complex than just following that pattern, most of the time I free him right away for the rewards of not wasting his time and just never looked to closely at what he was or wasn't selling.

 

I found using the identify price helpful becuase that doesn't change with charisma level.

Price wise the good store and the spider rescue store sell items at the same price and only slightly vary when it comes to how much he will pay you for stuff (30 vs 40 markup which I presume is a % modifyier)

Each store even has its own depreciation stat which changes how much the price varies if you try to sell them any item type they already possess.

I already knew that it was best to sell the same item type in one transaction to avoid it, typically this matters the most when selling magic ammo as the prices are very high and unlike most items their are a great many of them compared to more unique weapons or armor.

Like if you want to sell +3 arrows put them all in one inventory and sell the lot in one go.

 

My paladin with Charisma 20 got a price of 1224 for improved invisibility. My Cleric with Charisma 10 got 1440.

Prices on Boots of Avoidance and Ring of Protection +2 were the same, regardless of the paladin's dialog options or spider information. So it appears that the Charisma hit a discount ceiling that the other factors weren't significant enough to affect.

His buying prices were 25% higher.

If I used another character to get the level 4 spell inventory, Zack's selling prices were in between his best and worst, and varied with Charisma. His buying prices didn't vary, and they were his worst.

Now I'm trying to see the different stores for Bashshar.

Follow-up: I can see only your 1 & 2 stores. The only way I've got to the better one (2) is if my wizard both talks to Nym to buy the decanter, and then uses it. The inventory hasn't varied with whether it's the 1st, 2d, or 3d time I've used the decanter. Maybe the best one is for HoF?