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I was finishing the Renal Bloodscalp quest and going to kill Maevar, and instead of just hacking him and his lackeys to peices I decided to set a few traps in the hall way and flush him out with a cloud kill and wait for them to rush me with ranged weapons. It worked but Maevar and his crew did not out and were killed by the cloud kill.

So instead of risking one of my party members by sending him or her to trigger the multiple skulltraps and glyph's of Warding I had my mage shoot a fireball into all the traps hoping to set them off.

It didn't but the blast killed the guy in one of the cells and costing me 5 reputation points. Which in my opinion is kinda stupid since he had been locked up in that cell for ten years and I dont't think anyone would miss him even if somehow they found out what happened down there.

So I used Shadow Keeper put my Rep back to where it was. But even though it says my Rep is at 13, Anomen, Aerie, and Valgar are still complaining about my Rep. Does anyone have a solution to this?

 

Re-load.

 

I have one and it might be a little harsh so don't be offended, it's just how I am.

First of all, traps is a good idea. Thankfully this wasn't a post about a dragon.

Second. Cloudkill? I don't think they'd stand around in it if they saw you. Rather, they would have rushed you once you came into view. Move forward so they can see you and attack you when you cast Cloudkill rather than shooting it forth into the fog of war.

This will end your problems immediatly.

Fireball is very dangerous in an area you are not familiar with nor can see very well. Best you scout ahead first.

You lost reputation points on a legit basis. You killed an innocent who was not part of the battle. I don't think using Shadowkeeper can be justified by that.

Syl...

 

No offense taken and I see your point but my intention was not to kill them using cloudkill but to flush them out. What I wanted was to cause some initial damage with cloudkill, and finish the ones who survived the traps with ranged weapons. But they didn't which makes some sense if you think about it.

I flooded a small room full of a hightly damaging vapor which they did not know the source. They obviously would be confused and try to get out of there, but by a roleplaying perspective you could assumes the Maevar saw the traps and decided to try to hold out in the room instead of rushing down a narrow hall filled with traps and with a group of archers at the end of it.

And the man who was killed bya fireball was hardly innocent. If I remember correctly he was working for Maevar and got on his badside, so why would the general populace get upset if a thief who had been locked up in solitary confinment for 10 years got in a battle between the Shadow Thieves and another guild.

 

Actualy I've found that if you shoot a cloud kill into the fog of war they'll whoever you dam,age will come after you. Granted I've only used it once before in my time through in the sewers. I used it on the mercs down there who want gold to let you pass. I shot a cloudkill in there and they came charging out.

So I assumed that Maevar would d the same.

They probaly would charge me but they might decide to try to stick it out in the gas hoping it would evaporate. Kinda like in some of those older ganster movies when they set a house on fire and surround it with men and the guys inside don't come out because they know they'll get shot.

And for the man I doubt that the population of Athkatla would look down upon me because in a battle with a feared person like Maevar I accidently killed a old tortured thief.

 

True, he is a thief by nature but that doesn't give anyone the right to kill him if he was not doing any harm to your party.

You killed an innocent, regardless of class, sex or race, he or she had no intent on bringing you harm.

What reasons he was in his cell to begin with has no bearing on you.

You killed an innocent during battle. Plain and simple. I think you should use Shadowkeeper to lower your rep by 5 as it should be, not fix it.

Thief or no thief, no harm was done towards you or the party by him or her being there. The only harm done here was by you.

GUILTY!

Syl...

 

Elebereth does have a point about cloud kill and fog-o-war when encountering at least some human enemies. The few times I tried it early in the game, they did charge out of the fog of war to attack my party, even when I cast it into the fog of war without revealing their party. The problem with the tactic that everyone has I think only applies to Dragons(I think-never cared to play around with it enough to see). Why the biggest beast in the game doesn't come out of the fog baffels me as humans seem to just fine.

 

Well if you walk up to a thug on the street and kill him just because he's a thug you don't lose any rep points.

The Guard in the slums who turns the other way for the slavers can be killed for no reason with no rep loss.

The guard in the Sea Bounty who has the slaver documents can be killed before you have a reason to do so without hurting your reputation.

You can kill any Shadow Thief for no reason at all and your rep will not suffer.

If you can do all that without punishment then why should my rep suffer because I accidently killed a old thief?

 

>Well if you walk up to a thug on the street and kill him just because he's a thug you don't lose any rep points.

Thugs in the game are red. They are meant to attack and do damage to you.


>The Guard in the slums who turns the other way for the slavers can be killed for no reason with no rep loss.

He will attack you once you free the slaves. He is flagged as an enemy from the start, even if he turns his back.

>The guard in the Sea Bounty who has the slaver documents can be killed before you have a reason to do so without hurting your reputation.

Again. He is flagged to be allowed to do so. He is part of a quest that you have to kill him for the documents anyhow.

>You can kill any Shadow Thief for no reason at all and your rep will not suffer.

Flagged once again for the use of joining Bohdi. The flags remain, regardless of who you join.

You killed an innocent. Do the right thing and load up Shadowkeeper again and remove those 5 rep points.

Syl...

 

In my three times through IWD, and a week of playing BG2 I never used an area effect spell.

Dear Sir (or Lady) Elbereth. Can you do it without the cloudkill JUST for the sake of not being flamed in this forum? Good enough reason for me.

 

Theres a smaller version of cloud kill (lv 3 stinking cloud) which doesn't kill (most people) but should have the same positive effect of driving people out; more like tear gas. It has the other favourable effect of singling enemies out, because some will be unconsious for a while.

 

Why try to lead the thieves out? You can go through the back door (behind the priest of cyric) and hit them real hard befor they react since thier all looking the other way. I just hasted my party, charged my character (cleric/mage) into the center while Jan and Edwin let loose with fireballs. Once I was close to MeaVar, I cast fireball directly at him myself, since I had robes of vecna, my fireball went off before Jan or Edwin finished. With the hit points of a cleric, and protection from fire, I survided the three fireballs, and finished MaeVar off with vampiric touch. Battle was over in no time, and other than my main character, no one was hurt.

Even though it makes a lot of the battles pretty easy, I don't think its as cheesy as the cloud-kill/fog-of-war tactic because your going in close and giving them some oppertunity to fight back.

Also did that battle by gating in a pit fiend on the opposite side of the battle without casting protection from evil (why bother with it, the fiend has like beliefs) and letting Korgan and the fiend pound throught the thieves until they meet in the center and Korgan kills the fiend off (got more XP's that way)

 

I was referring to implementing Elebereths choice of tactics.

 

hmmm...I'm not sure I like all this anti-thief feeling in here, we're just trying to make a living, and that old thief has been most useful to me and my guild, anyway, I have found that beholders charge you out of the fog of war in a cloud kill area aswell but I recommend the good old backstab, they never see it coming...even the professionals twice as sneaky but just as fun...plus you can get away with it and not get accused of cowardice, hehe, ever tried to backstab a dragon?

*note- I am in no way advocating the use of 'easy' or cheat-like killing techniques, they don't call em hack n slash for nothin!*

 

Why do you have to resort to Cloudkill anyway?
MaeVar and his goons suck. You should be able to kick them around easily.

 

I like to play thiefs as I like to spread. I have a more differenced view on area spells:

When I find enemies while scouting an area moving-silent/ hiding-in-shadows and I find that there´s no one around that could get hurt and I´d like to fire a web/ stinking clod/ cloudkill/ fireball/ skulltrap/ chaossphere spell or so in the group of my opponents (given that they´re hostile) THATS AN AMBUSH, not unlike backstabbing.
A totally legitimate tactic, used by thiefs and soldiers for ages (paladins excluded)!

When you do it without scouting and don´t care about people you could hurt your a) stupid or b) playing chaotic evil

When you reload a game or play it the second + time and you know there are some enemies-in-spe in front (for ex when you have to start a conversation to turn them hostile) and you kill them that way, that´s cowardly-firing-cloudkill-from-the-fog-of-war

IMHO, but I guess we had that before..