Is Finger Of Death on Dragons Cheating?

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Would you regard casting "Finger Of Death" on dragons (it kills them outright in most cases, this is how I killed the Black and Shadow dragons)as cheating?

 

Long answer: No, with a 'but'. In a real situation, REAL people would do anything they could to kill it, not risk themselves for the glory of battle. Unless of course you are stupid, drunk, barbaric, or all 3: dwarven. So unless you are a stupid, drunk, barbaric dwarf (your run-of-the-mill dwarf): Use finger of death. BUT this IS a game, it would be more fun if you embrace the challenge.

Short answer: No.

Amon-Ra

[This message has been edited by Amon-Ra (edited January 03, 2001).]

 

No, it isn't cheating so to speak, but nor is it as fufilling. I used Harm once to almost kill the Shadow Dragon. I thought it was great when I did it, but it just wasn't as nice as hacking away at Firkrag with swords and magic until I fell the foul beast. In short, I don'e feel it's any more cheap or cheating than using the quivering palm attack that everyone seemed so hyped up about a couple of months ago. Just don't tell me you cast time stop from memorization before hand

 

I don't think that the Shadow Dragon was difficult anyway. I went after him with steel and magic, and he just dropped. One breach, one pierce magic, a number of magic missiles, summoned creatures and well swung swords later, he was on the ground. He didn't use his breath weapon, here was no draining of levels. It was one of the more unsatisfying battles I have fought.

 

Amon-Ra,i am a barbaric dwarf and drunk often enough(although it takes some time with contitution 19)but I AM NOT STUPID

( intelligence 16 just not so charismatic or wise )

 

Yeah, there is lot of racist talk on this board. I got an half orc mage who will brain most of these posters right through the next wall (and with the charisma ring he's a beauty!!!)

 

of course i meant natural stats.
i've got a charisma of 8,but i thonk of it this way:i am a dwarf and i'm beautiful...but who takes a beautiful dwarf serious?thus the low charisma

 

Azarial is too tough for the Shadow Dragon! I congratulate him! When I fought the beast it level drained Aerie and Viconia into crypt dust. The very Carbon-14 was sucked from their bones!

When I saw the horror I said to the dragon, "F*CKER! I'll kill you if it's the last thing I do! " It was the last thing I did not do.

Anyway, imagine Gorion and his Harper friends in that situation. What would he do? Yes, he would use Finger of Death. Yes not only would he use Harm, he may also use Tenser's Transformation, Champion Strength and Call Upon Holy Might as well.

What Gorion would not do is to exploit the game's design flaw and set traps and rest multiple times, cloudkill on unhostile targets, etc. THAT is cheating.

Thusly, I'm going to use Harm on Firkraag after I pop out of the Underdark! (but he was impossible to hit even with my THAC0 at -1!)

 

Not using cloudkill on unhostile targets? When was the last time that you came upon a colored dragon that didn't turn hostile? Or a beholder? It's called an ambush, it's a surprise attack that gives you an initiative bonus.

 

As much as I would enjoy getting into this entire Cloudkill debate for a second time and how using the fog of war, then casting a Cloudkill into it while standing around waiting for the enemy to die with no chance of them hurting you a good thing to do, I won't.

Simply, read this thread for all the reasons as to why casting Cloudkill into the Fog of War is in fact, a very cheap tactic.
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001216.html

Syl...

 

So is hiding in shadows or casting invisibility and then using backstabs. So are traps of all kinds. Shouldn't the dragon's area of sight be significantly larger than than a character's? If not, then it's a programmer's mistake. It's pretty silly that you only see a dragon when you're right on top of it anyway; the damn thing towers over anything else on screen. Shouldn't you be able to see it from quite a ways off? I can see a tall tree from really far away, I'd expect to see a dragon from a distance as well. In any case, I consider it to be similar to setting up in a hidden place and attacking from ambush. Cowardly? You can call it that, but then again, I'm not playing as a Paladin; I'm a multiclass mage/theif.

[This message has been edited by Cuckoo (edited January 03, 2001).]

 

No it's not cheating. Why should you pull
your punches? Firkraag certainly doesn't.

 

Before you ask I did keep them busy with Fire Elementals and I didn't cast time stop. It's not as if I'm abusing the game design. Still it didn't feel half as good as when I felled Firkragg the old fashioned hack, slash and magic missile way.

[This message has been edited by Brauhex (edited January 03, 2001).]

 

It can be fullfilling: For a fighter, his power is his sword, weapon profeciency and muscle. For a mage, it is his magical skill. So, if a mage can kill a dragon with one spell, he is a quite powerful person.

 

Ah, yes, but ALL of you miss the point!

Gorion would use Cloudkill, but the Dragon would move out of the way!

When YOU use Cloudkill, you are merely exploiting a design flaw. So go ahead and exploit the flaw if you can't win any other way, but don't call it anything other than that.

Let's say I DM-ed a Dragon in NWN and controlled it. Let's say you're supposed to talk to it before commencing hostilities, to get vital game information. Do you think sending a wizard eye to keep me in one place while casting multiple cloudkills would work?

Yes, Cuckoo, it IS the programmer's mistake! And it is crystal clear that you are merely exploiting his mistake! Don't compare it to backstabs and invisibility! Those things work whether in any P&P or CRPG.

 

I have a similar tale of Phycho Bob (fighter)

Bob and Minsc were walking along in front of the rest of the part discussing who they would most like to f*ck in the party when they stumbled upon a big cavern kinda room in which there was a big mofo red dragon.

Minsc charged forward and started to beat the hell out of him while Bob called for help. Then Bob finally went Berzerk (Phycho) and charged the dragon screaming profanitys tat would get me banned, and smashed the dragon right in the chin with the hilt of his blade that he fought fiercely for, the hilt must have been charged with amazing magical properties because it cast "Hold" on the dragon (Celestial Fury) but the spell was absorbed into the dragons amazingly magic resistant firey red scales. Minsc then started to look a little bit pale at the continual beating, but he felt better when he saw 2 "lower resistance" bolts of magic whizz past his head and hit the dragon in the mound of his back. The roar that it emmited when this his was amazing, it deafend Bob and Minsc for a few seconds. Then as Minsc and Bob fought fiercealy (both are berzerk) there was a huge assortement of arrows, bolts and spells just missing them and smashing into the dragon. After a long hard fight and a lot of sweat and bloot, Bob smashed his magical warhammer (the gold one in the adventurers mart) into the beasts skull. This send ripples of magical pain through its body and he was off guard for a second and at that moment Bob thrust his beloved katana into the beasts throat and pushed it down to vicerate the evil creature. Minsc lay down and gulped down a bottle of magical healing potion when he still say a small flicker of life in the dragons evil eyes, he ran forward and thrust Lilacor (sp?) into the beats evil eye and it was one more succesfully kicked butt for Minsc and Boo (it was actually the reflection of the magical effects from Minsc's potion he saw in the dragons eyes but the kill made him happy)

Bob then got the nickname "Phycho Bob" because of his amazing strengh and stamina when fighting such amazing beasts.

Then he felt knackered so he went to bed with Viconia deciding she was the best f*ck.

THE END

or is it......

[This message has been edited by Septic Yogurt (edited January 07, 2001).]

 

Nice story!

--t4sK

 

Death spells on dragons are not automatic killers. I had 3 mages cast multiple breach & reduce resistance and followed up with them + Viconia casting about 10 death spells, witch all failed. Maybe I was just unlucky, but his saving throws sgainst death magic seem to be very good.

In the last couple of weeks I cast diverse area spells on lots of different creatures (except golems and dragons). Even if I did it from the fog of war, ALL of them (even the dumbest of goblins) attacked and even took indirect routes if necessary.
So either
- a: I am to dumb to reproduce the simplest of cheats
- b: My monsters are just better than everybody elses
- c: the cloudkill debade reduces to attacking blue characters (which shows up bug even if the attack is meelee)

(I'll flame anyone who answers with 'a'!!!)

BTW has anyone ever done damage to / killed one of these vampiric mists (that show up in blue after killing a vampire). Them getting away leaves a very unsatisfying feeling of incompleteness with me.

 

I think Dragons are one of the few ones not to respond to area spell (dunnow why). As far as I have seen they all respond by attacking the caster of the spell (even goblins).
I don't know why it wasn't implemented for dragons.