3.5 holy symbols / arcane focii

LKD · Apr 24, 2013

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I just had a weird thought -- in order to cast a spell that requires a small focus (like the small model of a target for "True Strike" or a holy symbol pretty well any cleric spell) must that focus be in hand? I read an article on WOTC by Skip Williams that insinuated such, but it was not clearly delineated, IMHO.

If so, a cleric with a heavy shield on his arm could not wield a melee weapon if he wanted to cast spells or turn undead. He might with a small shield, and definitely could with a buckler.

Is there an item that lets you attach your holy symbol to your shield or weapon? I know there is a cleric package (ancestral speaker) that lets you be your own holy symbol, but at the cost of turning undead.

On a similar note, Somatic Casting (Complete Mage) lets you hold a weapon and use it to trace somatic components, which would be good for a cleric, but it still doesn't solve the focus issue.

I thought I read somewhere (don't remember where) that focii do NOT need to be in hand, just on the person of the caster.

Thoughts, recriminations, ideas?

Blades of Vanatar · Apr 24, 2013

I don't see why a cleric couldn't grasp his holy symbol in a hand that already is grasping a shield or weapon. Do the rules state how tight he must hold it? How strong a grip he has to have on it? No. Try it. It is hard to hold two objects at once. Unless of course you have very small, girly hands.

LKD · Apr 24, 2013

Here's what Skp says in Rules of the game: Reading spell descriptions:

Somatic (S): You must have at least one hand free to complete a somatic component. The rules don't go into any detail about when you have a hand "free," but here are some general guidelines.
Your hand is free when you aren't carrying a weapon, a piece of equipment, or (usually) a shield. You can strap a buckler to your arm and use your hand to wield a weapon (albeit at a penalty), so there's no reason you couldn't use your buckler hand for a somatic component. The buckler might interfere a little bit, but that's what the arcane spell failure chance for the buckler is for. You also can strap a light shield to your forearm and still carry items in that hand, but you can't use the hand for anything else (such as wielding a weapon), so there's no good reason you should be able to use that hand to complete a somatic component. Since manipulating a material component (including a focus) is part of casting the spell, it's best to consider the hand that holds the material component or focus as "free" for purposes of completing a somatic component.

You cannot cast a spell with a somatic component if you're grappling (either when you're the attacker in the grapple or the defender), when you're pinned, or when you're immobilized in some way (such as when you're tied up).

Material (M): Although the rules don't mention it, common sense dictates that you must have a hand free to manipulate a material component for a spell (see the notes on somatic components, above).
When you're grappling, you can try to cast a spell with a material component (but not with a somatic component) provided you have the material component in your hand when you begin the spell. If you don't have the material component in hand, you must first use a full-round action to get it. Since you used a full-round action to retrieve the component, you can't cast the spell until your next turn. You can't cast a spell with a material component if you're pinned.

Most material components have a negligible cost and they're assumed to be part of your spell component pouch. If you lose that pouch you're pretty much out of luck for casting spells with material components unless you can talk your DM into letting you forage for them or shop for them separately.

Here's an unofficial rule for foraging: Make a Survival check (DC 10) in much the same manner you'd forage for supplies (see the Survival skill description). On a successful check you find one component. If your check result exceeds 10, you find one additional component for every 2 points your check result exceeds 10. If you have 5 or more ranks of Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana), you get a +2 bonus on the check (or +4 if you have 5 or more ranks in each skill). You can obtain spell components of only negligible cost by foraging.

If you are in some locale where you can shop for spell components, you probably can buy a new spell component pouch. If that's not possible, you can shop for components using the same method described above, but a Gather Information check makes more sense than a Survival check.

Some material components are valuable enough to have a cost listed in the spell description. Such material components are never included in a spell component pouch, and you must buy them separately (though there is no reason why you could not store them in a spell component pouch after you've bought them).

No matter what a material component costs, you use it up when you cast a spell with it. The component is expended even if the spell fails for some reason (such as being disrupted while casting, missing a spell failure chance, or whatever).

A spell component pouch effectively has an unlimited supply of material components for your own spells (but only material components with negligible cost). In effect, you are assumed to refill your pouch just by poking around in your spare time. When you use a material component that has a cash value, you'll need to buy a replacement before you can cast the spell again.

Although it's not mentioned in the rules, two or more spellcasters can share a spell component pouch. As an unofficial rule of thumb, you can assume that a character's pouch holds enough of any particular material component each day to cast that spell twice as many times as the caster can cast spells of that level. For example, a 1st-level wizard with an Intelligence score of 15 has a pouch that contains enough material components to cast any particular 1st-level spell four times a day. If the character shares his spell component pouch, he could easily run out of components for the day. Keep in mind that this is an off-the-cuff rule to cover a fairly unlikely situation. It's not intended as a way for stingy PCs to wiggle out of paying a measly 5 gp for a spell component pouch. DMs should free to adjust it as necessary to suit their campaigns.

Focus (F): For all intents and purposes, a focus is merely a material component that isn't consumed when you cast the spell. Everything in the section on material components also applies to focuses (except the part about them being consumed), with the following exceptions:
If you're forced to forage for a focus with a negligible cost, the DC to find one is 15, and you can locate an additional focus with a negligible cost for every 5 points by which your check exceeds 15.

A spell component pouch typically contains one focus with a negligible cost for each spell that you know that also requires such a focus.

Divine Focus (DF): This is simply a focus that has some spiritual significance for you. Usually it's your holy symbol. Divine focuses aren't included in spell component pouches.
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He says this about turning undead in All About Clerics III:

A cleric turns undead as a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Doing so requires him to present his holy symbol. The rules don't specify exactly what that entails. Common sense suggests that presenting his holy symbol involves holding the symbol in his hand (or what passes for a hand) and holding it up in plain sight (or what would pass for plain sight if anyone could see him; but see the D&D FAQ for the question regarding greater invisibility and turning).
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So as I said, with a buckler, great, but with a small shield, arguable. You must grip a large shield or tower shield, so those are right out.

I'd want to have the holy symbol around my neck on a chain or cord (thong, as it has been called in the past before people perverted the term) so I could present it and then drop it and draw my weapon, but regardless, it would kinda fug things up a bit for going from combat to spellcasting or vice versa.

Blades of Vanatar · Apr 24, 2013

With the possible exception of Tower shields, the shield is strapped to the forearm. BUT, you should NOT recieve a shield bonus when using the holy symbol in the hand the shield is in. This gets into the realm of re-equipping. The system is incomplete at best. Sp, common sense should rule the day in the absence of a crystal-clear ruling. Obviously, if you are wielding a Pike or Great Axe, it would be hard to grasp a holy symbol at the same time and use it effectively. If you are holding a large shield and dagger, different story IMO. Ultimately, it should be up to the DM IMO.

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3.5 holy symbols / arcane focii

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