4 Deep Gnomes and 2 Drows

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Will this party be able to beat normal and HOF afterwards ?

Code:

Char	Race	        Class	             Alignment	STR	DEX	CON	INT	WIS	CHA
												
1	Deep Gnome	DreadMaster of Bane(30)	    LN	16	20	14	3	20*	1
2	Deep Gnome	Monk(30)	            LN	16	20	14	3	20*	1
3	Deep Gnome	Druid(30)	            LN	12	15	14      12	20*	1
4	Drow	        Bard(11)/Sorcerer(19)	    CG	8	6	16	20	10	20*
5	Deep Gnome	Rogue(1)/Illusionist(29)    LN	9	20	16	18*	10	1
6	Drow	        Sorcerer(29)/Paladin(1)	    LG	7	16	16	12	9	20*
  

MAIN WPN         XP penalty	         Role	                Name

1 AXE	                0	        Buffer+Healer+Tank	Punisher
2 FIST	                0	        Scout+Assassin+Tank	IronFist
3 POLEARM	        0	        Buffer+Healer+Bomber	Storm
4 bonus	                20% from lvl 12	Diplomat+Buffer	        Yammer
5 missle or bonus	0	        Buffer+Utility+Bomber	Houdini   
6 missle or bonus	0	        Buffer+Bomber	        Ignus

Are there enough WIS enchanceing items ?

[ November 25, 2006, 18:32: Message edited by: el M ]

 

Unless you've got EoU, which alters the starting xp of deep gnomes, you'll end up with a bunch of level 1 characters maybe even after Chapter 1 starts... and that's a problem. But in the long run, just maybe. Although... rogue (1)? Why's that?

 

i will install that component of EoU. More skill points "at birth" . Don't lvl 1 Rogues get the most skill points at lvl 1 ( INT modifier * 4 or something like that ) ?

 

Yeah rogues usually get 9 points even with low Int, but on which do you intend to place them? Alchemy perhaps? Alchemy, spellcraft and the like requires 2 points if you're a rogue, one point for hide, pp, ms, and other rogue inclined skills, and for a deep gnome, you'll get another xp penalty for multiclassing

 

Alchemy
Animal Empathy
Bluff
Concentration
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Hide
Intimidate
Knowledge (Arcana)
Move Silently
Open Lock
Pick Pocket
Search
Spellcraft
Use Magic Device
Wilderness Lore

thief skills mainly - search,disable,hide,pickpocket + spellcraft,concentration

deep gnome's favoured class is ilussionist
no exp penalty for Deep Gnome Rogue(1)/Ilussionist(x)

 

Your party will only have slight problems until the first 5-6 levels are reached, afterwards the game will be far too easy.

The hardest part in the game is the first chapter, the later parts (including HoF mode) are easier since players have far better equipment and more spells then.

So you made a party which makes the hard part harder and the (too) easy parts even easier.
If this is your first run-through I recommend playing mostly with characters without ECL penalty, maybe with only one aasimar or drow.

 

i did finish the normal game a few years back. can't remember exaclty what the party - aasimar paladin ,DG monk , a cleric, a fighter/mage, can't remember the details.
But i want to go all the way with this gnomes this time. I'm shure they'll be loads of fun.

 

Your party looks great!
Your DG:s won't be unhittable in HOF, maybe one but not all. You can't find enough items giving generic AC bonus to give them all high-AC.

Maybe you could change your rogue1/illusionist to get better AC and use him and the monk (or the cleric) as high-AC-chars. A good build would be something like: rogue1/monk1/pal2 (or dreadmaster1 depends on alignment)/illusionist~20 and then maybe add some random classes for starter bonuses. Take away some strength and con and max wis and he'll be a very good decoy to help out whoever you choose to use as backup high-AC char.

Reed Jukkas guide (both old and new version) for some good advices on how to make this high-AC illusionist (the decoy in his arcane parties.)

Even with the party you have now you'll do fine but the advantages of a quite-high AC isn't great in HOF. You'll either need very high AC or else you'll always get hit.

 

i have read his guides but i feel i will have more fun using this party

 

I never played any of his parties but his guide is good to read through just to get the idea on how to build those high-AC chars.
I don't like parties with less than 6 chars. If it was possible I would play a 8-char party!
I didn't want you to change your party, just to give you a suggestion of making your rogue/illusionist a better decoy!
As your party is now it should be fun to play with, but for hof it's nice to have someone with high-AC (72+) and while your monk will be able to reach that he'll need loads of buffs. A DG rogue/monk/pal(or dreadmaster)/illusionist is probably the easiest way to reach those AC:s.

You should absolutely keep the rest of your party as it is (I would maybe change the monk since I like to play with magic users, but that's just me!). Playing with a high-lvl sorc, a cleric, a druid and a bard in the same party gives loads of spellcraft and access to every spell in the game!

 

I like more to use spell casters for buff/debuff and then beat the crap out of the opposition using melee/ranged weapons. However I'm not ashamed of using direct damage spells either against hordes of enemies and then use melee for mop up. The Monk is going to be the party scout (along with the Rogue/Illusionist) and hoppefully(using max WIS and saving throw lowering spells from other party members) be able to disable frail casters before the start of the battle. During the battle he will serve mostly as decoy and "lightning Rod" due to his extreme magic resistance. If this tactic will prove to disapointing i will drop him.

 

1)I recommend giving 16 dex and 18 con to your cleric unless you want him to go without real armor and use the mage armor spell instead.
More than 22 dex is useless with leather and full plate allows even less. You can gain up to +5 dex with cat's grace.

In normal mode AC will be already perfect with lower dex and in HoF mode HP will be more important than AC.

3) I'd give only 10 int to the druid. This is enough to get 2 skill points per level, you don't need more than concentration and 10 spellcraft.
Because of high wis you'll succeed in wilderness lore even without spending a single skill point. You can retry as often as you want if you fail the first attempt.
I'd raise con instead.


4) Why wis that high ? Hold and charm spells are cast at the front line fighters and not at the background casters.
This character will be targeted by a spell which requires a will save less than 3 times during the whole game and you can even use your own spells to get immunity against the spells.

Will saves are the strong saves both for bards and sorcs, drow get another racial +2 saves which are as good as +4 wis, the level 5 song will be active during the first combat rounds and gives +3 saves which equals +6 wis.

And most of those spells won't even reach your character because of the MR.

20 int isn't useful either. You don't need that many skillpoints. 12 int already gives you 2 skill points when levelling as sorcerer and even more as bard. You only need concentration, 9 points in spellcraft when you reach level 15 and a few points for diplomatic skills.
You already have a +5 modifier for the diplomatic skills even without spending points or eagle's splendor, not much more is needed to get all dialogue options.
The rogue/illusionist gets enough skill points to handle the arcane skills, especially since a high dex character doesn't need points in "hide" or "move silently" at all.

I'd lower int to 12, wis to 3-4 and increase strength and dex instead.


5)I'd lower wis to 5-6 and increase strength and con instead.

6)I'd lower wis to 3-4 and increase strength and con instead.
Having to shift items around in your party because of low strength is very annoying.

If you make some characters evil they'll be immune to "blasphemy".


OT: Did you choose your forum name for worshipping reasons ?

 

I disagree with kmonster on some points.
Keep the high int on your bard/sorc! It gives ability to take all talking skills. 5 in those isn't enough! The wis on char 4-6 isn't too important, but a strength of around 8 is usually enough for pure spellcasters so I don't know what is the best way to spend those extra points. Both 4 and 6 already has maximum con.

 

Thanks for correcting me. Should be "increase str and DEX" instead at 6).
Arcane casters with only 8 strength are indeed playable, but low carrying capacity can be annoying, additional fighting ability doesn't hurt and is far more important than useless points in wis.
I'd give at least 8 str to char6 and 11 str to char5, rather more than less.

+5 is in fact not enough for the diplomatic skills, but cha will be raised every 4 levels and "eagle's splendor" is gained early and lasts for 1 hour/level. So this character can have 26 cha at level 4, that's a +8 modifier.
You can't pick the elemental feats before sorc level 8, that's character level 15. If you start putting points into spellcraft at level 9 it's early enough.
At bard creation with 12 int you'll get 12 skill points (IIRC) which you can put into diplomatic skills to get +3 everywhere. If you take concentration at level up you can have it maxed out at 2/2 if you want but it's not neccessary that early.

 

@kmonster

Whoaa - thats a long list .


I will have to do more pondering with the caracters stats it seems .

1. High DEX - light/no armour seems good to me - higher reflex saves are good for a front liner. But then again so are HPs ...

3. Seems Ok - more CON it is.

4., 5.& 6. Sacrifice some WILL saves for more carry weight. Seems reasonable .

About that blasphemy - i was more inclined to play a mostly good alligned party and zapp the sukers with Holy Word instead - "no save ,ignore MR -stun all" - that seems a bit over powered. It would have been a nasty surprise on the first attept ,but after that i'm sure i would'we come up a something. I will take the challange and use those allignents :
1. LN 2. LG 3. NG 4. CG 5. CG 6. LG

My forum nickname has nothing to do with D&D deities. Mere coincidence.


I won't start the game yet some more pondering can be done .

 

Kmonster wanted you to have immunity from enemy blasphemy attacks, not access to cast it yourself. That can make one fight in the game considerably easier. Maybe your SR on all will do that at least some of your chars won't be affected. In my last run through only 2 of my 4 non evil chars got affected so that wasn't that big problem for me.

 

Skills: You don't need so much of them. You seem to like the idea of a bard 11/sorc x, so keep that and forget about the rogue level for your illusionist.

Monk: monk 1/cleric x is much much better, despite the xp penalty. The main things monks offer are AC bonus, evasion, and MR. You get the first two at level 1, and the entire party already has MR, so giving one guy super-extra MR doesn't do anything important for you. If you wanted, you could make him LG and take a paladin level late in HOF so he could wield the H.A.

 

1. Actually i am considering makin him Rogue(2)/Illusionist(28) - evasion
2. I'll be using the monk special attacks - stunning and quivering palm quite often and this will often place him well behind enemy lines - that when he'll need that high MR.

About the blasphemy thing - i say let them cast it - it won't help them and i will not use a evil party just for one battle - i will however use a cleric of bane for that nice +2 WIS thow .

 

Skills can be handy to have. open lock gives access to even the thoughest chests that can't be bashed without having to fill your spellbooks with knock-spells or having to rest every time you encounter a chest.
Don't take the second rogue-lvl until very late (unless you have a very hard time finding scrolls). You could take a monk lvl instead of the second rogue-lvl for better saves instead of some extra skills. That also gives evasion.