4th of July

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"When shall it be said in any country of the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance or distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes not oppressive; the rational world is my friend because I am friend of its happiness; when these things can be said, then may that country boast of its constitution and government"

by Tom Paine

A country isn't good because it *has* a great constitution. Having it alone is nothing. Like everthing, it has to be taken care of. Vigilantly. Wanted to let that loose before Bush II. drowns america in a sea of flags.

Courtesy to the american tradition and the appeal of the american idea.

 

Why? What happens on the 4th of July?

 

You don't know? Its their national day. And I'm not even living in "little-USA" like you do.

 

Ragusa, did you really have to do this? We all know you hate America already. I suppose if Al Gore(the son of a US Senator, big suprise) had been "appointed" President by the Supreme Court, everything in America would be just dandy. Well, wallow in your hatred, I'm going to have a happy 4th of July .

 

Yeah, do that. Have a day where you can celebreta all the innocent lives in Iraq which your country destroyed without any proof of WMD.

 

Hey! Let's bash America! Why not? It's something new! Something original! Nobody around here ever does that! Especially not Ragusa!

@Ragusa - Don't you ever get tired of this? After over two years of reading your nonsense, I've come to an amazing conclusion. You don't like America! What a revelation! Perhaps you could just put "I hate America" under your portrait. It would save you from having to quote Tom Paine. Although we are all REALLY impressed with the breadth of your knowledge. BTW, are you going to flame the French on July 14?

@Velve Zauviir - Your flame lacks creativity and thought. Any clown can spew hateful drivel. Take it up a notch! Study under Ragusa! You too could be quoting Tom Paine before the week is out!

 

Honestly, Ragusa's initial post didn't strike me as being his usual anti-American diatribe (there was another post last week, Ragusa, where you defended America... are you feeling OK? ). I took it as a tribute to the ideals upon which America was founded and a reminder to Americans that we have a responsibility to keep those ideals alive. Heck, there are plenty of Americans who have worse things to say about the current administration.

This thread wasn't as Anti-American as I feared it might be until VZ's little bit of vitriol.

Anyway, Velcro and I plan to teach our son about his heritage by participating in festivities that our town is organizing. We live in an area with a long history of "American" presence (not meaning to open the Native American Pandora's Box) so there will be plenty of opportunities.

 

Velve Zauviir wrote:

Actually, the lives lost in the war considerably outweigh the number that would've been killed by Hussein if his regime was allowed to continue.

I think these weapons will still be found. I mean we found mobile research labs already, and pieces of chemical production machinery...Even before Hussein was overthrown. If they weren't used for that function, why didn't the Iraqi government deny it and offer an explanation?

He has missile delivery systems that went beyond the 90 mile range agreed to at the end of the first Gulf War. What do you think they were for? Sending flowers?

It amazes me that you villify a nation that has the guts to stand up to rogue states and back up its words with action. Yet you consider a murdering, genocidal, aggressive maniac a poor misunderstood victim...It must be nice to be able to sit on the sidelines and criticize, and never needing to stand by your beliefs.

 

@Sir Bel - I din't ever say that Saddam was innocent, just most of the people of Iraq. Not all of them is tyrants and enemies of democraty.(Even though I hate democraty.)

And why should USA have the right to kill innocent people when other states don't? Two wrongs don't make it right. (Cliché I know but it's a good one.)

And how about those Missile Launchers?
Same thing! Why should USA have the right to have those when no-one else does? They just stands out as hypocrites if they continue like that.

I actually miss the time where the Sovjet Union existed. Back then USA didn't have the allowence to do anything, now they do.
------------------
Sorry 'bout my grammar.

 

We didn't kill civilians in Iraq.

 

So you say that not even ONE of the civilians in Iraq died at the hands of the Americans? That's just plain bullsh*t.

 

Before this gets completely out of hand, let me take the opportunity to say: Happy 4th of July to all Americans out there. I know it's a little too early, but who cares.

 

Thanks Pac Man it is appreciated.

The fourth of July is one of our better holidays.
My son (seven years old) is already drooling at the thought of the pork ribs I'm going to barbecue.

 

You may call it "guts", others may not. Existence of other points of view shouldn't be to astonishing for a lawyer, should it ?

 

I think I'll stick by Raguse on this one. One of the saddest things I have ever seen in me life was this one Jerry Springer show which I don't usually watch...anywayz, this dude there was asked what he would do now for money he would no doubt need to feed his kid. And he said: "I'm not afraid Jerry, 'cause president Bush is doin' a really great job." And then all this flags started appearing out of nowhere and "the Star spangled banner" started playing in the background. Never, in my whole life have I seen such a primitive brain-washing technique. Soooooo obvious, soooooo fuggin' disguisting, soooo planned out, sooo not-spontanious.


There was a man who once said "panem et circenses." Means bread&games. Means that if a country could feed it's people and at the same time blind them with "games" (in this case movies, NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, Iraq...), that goverment could do whatever it wanted back at home. And Caesar said "panem et circenses."

 

Many countries have holidays on which they celebrate their nation. Be it independence, the removal of a tyrant, some great victory, whatever. Do you all take exception to these occurences, or just when America does it? It seems to me, that this is the one day of the year that we should be allowed to be patriotic without having to justify it.
But, leave it to Ragusa, et. al. to piss on this as well. Ragusa, you in particular might want to consider a more fruitful hobby. Imagine what you could be doing with your time if you weren't sitting around crying about how bad you perceive America to be.
Be that as it may, I will be having fun, spending time with family, and watching fireworks. Not a bad way to spend a Friday.

 

For all of you who hate America ... two messages.

#1 ... shut up already. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. 50% of SP hates America, fine, don't buy games produced here. Sheesh.

#2 .... rejoice that during this Forth of July, we will celebrate by killing brain cells, getting fatter, and blowing fingers off with fireworks. Its tradition.

(someone remind me when Hitler-Day is in Germany so we can get ready for that with a few good posts. ((EDIT-I don't spell well in a rant ))

[ July 01, 2003, 20:33: Message edited by: Mathetais ]

 

@Math

1. It's called Hitler, not Hilter.

2. They don't celebrate that in Germany. My dad is from Germany and he never ever had experienced such a holiday.

 

They do have an Oktoberfest however. But actually i envy the Germans for that (or more the Bavarians). Have a huge beerparty, gather in big tents and drink until you drop, hm..... i could live with that.

 

The Germans have the "unification-day"

Ah, and for your interest. The national-celebration day of the biggest, finest and coolest country of the world, at least in my obviously not so humble view, is 1. August.