About suicide...

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I know it's not an easy topic but, could someone explain to me why in certain country (I'll not name them for various factor) suicide is consider Illegal? I mean If your about to commit a suicide then what you need is help for social ressource and not being "criminilaze" because of it! I just can't understand this! Suicide mustn't be assosiated to only bum and Drugged people but to desesperate people need help. IMHO suicide as illegal is completly stupid.

 

Well, for starters, let's clarify a few things.

First, in what countries is suicide illegal? I know you said you won't name them, but it would help for the purposes of this discussion if we knew where we were talking about and could varify if that's an actual law.

It's immoral certainly, and a sin in the eyes of pretty much every religion I can think of. But I can't imagine a law against committing suicide, or at least I've never heard of it. What are they gonna do...toss your corpse in jail? Now assisting suicide...that's another matter.

Are you sure you aren't confusing "illegal" with "immoral?"

 

Well It was vague in what I've heard but I recall somewhere in the web that the USA Canada ans some europen country where Suicide is Illegal. I think it is more because of euthenasia that those law exist, but if euthenasia is consider Suicide and than it is illegal does that mean if you try to suicide yourself then you are consider a criminal? Sorry if my topic was unclear. Anyway if you want to be euthanasied (?) then it's your decision nobody can't tell your wrong. So does ending your suffering (euthanesia) is considered suicide? if yes why illegal?

 

Someone asked this once before. One reason it's illegal is it allows people to be charged as an accomplice or accessory. Because of the difficulty of verifying after the fact whether a suicide was truly voluntary when someone else 'assists' you may want to try to prevent these assisted suicides.

Here is a question for you: how often is someone charged with suicide or charged for attempting their own suicide?

Answer that question and I think your outrage will disappear.

 

Suicide, attempting suicide, and assisting in suicide are all illegal under the criminal code of Canada. In terms of how often the charges are actually pressed for attempted suicide, not very often but when someone is arrested for attempting suicide it is generally a means by which the government is forcing the person into a safer environment where he or she can get appropriate psychiatric or medical treatment.

Personally I think the law is absurd. If someone wants to end his/her own life then that, in my opinion, is his/her right. I challenge anyone to try to find someone that does not agree with me who has had to spend ten years with an elderly relative who is bed ridden, can not move more then a twitch, can not speak, eat without assistance, go to the bathroom etc. I can only hope that if I ever end up in that state that someone who cares about me will have the guts to end my suffering.

 

I think suicide is illegal in about every country in the world. In most constitutions it says that countries need to protect its citizens from harm and that is what they are trying to do.

The only place where euthanesia is legal is in Holland (and maybe Belgium).

I think it is good that euthanesia is legal, because you don't want people to suffer unnecessary. Most religious people are against it however, and I don't see why. They of all people should be in favor of it, because they belief that when a person dies, he/she goes to heaven and why make a person suffer if you know he is going to heaven and then will be in a better place.

 

Euthanasia has a bad name, because there was a euthnasia-program in Nazi-Germany, to make the "Aryan race" better and killl everyone, which did not fit the minimal standart for a German. Like people with down-syndrom.

There's problem with euthanasia -> Is it because of mery or to get rid of a relative ?

 

I think suicide is illegal in many countries is because suicide is the murder of one's self. Murder is illegal, so therefore suicide is as well.

I think people that commit suicide deserve no respect, or sympathy...unless of course it is a situation like in the movie Armageddon, where Bruce Willis stays behind to set off the bomb. Suicide is the coward's way out. This is the way I was brought up and this is what I believe. Perhaps this quote from a respected teacher will help someone out there:

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

Recently a girl at my old high school hung her self. When my g/f heard about it she said, "Oh, that's so sad..." That made me mad because the reason the girl killed herself was because her boyfriend broke up with her a week before the Homecoming dance. Stupid, just stupid.

IMO, suicide proves Darwin's theory that only the strong will survive.

 

Social Darwinism. If a child is born with diabetes, that child is not fit to live. It should die. Survival of the fittest.

It's the animal that fits the most, not the strongest, which survives. The strongest dies, like the mammoth did.

[ June 24, 2003, 22:28: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

Well "should" is a little harsh to say,

- oh look here you have a son! waitasec, its deaf, oh well of in the garbagecan with it

For you and me that reason might sound stupid, but for her it was enough to kill herself

To die in pride when it is no longer possible to live in pride

 

I just can't seem to be able to swallow the irony, from eugenics to social darwinism. Anyway, to stress it, social darwinism has nothing to do with Charles Darwin. Just some guy had to find a good name for his "scientific" theory, that white men was born to rule the world. Then he called it an anology from the evolution of species, made famous by Darwin. A label, poor old Darwin had nothing to do with it.

 

Suicide as a criminal offence has long since ceased to be the case in many countries.

The crime of suicide and attempted suicide were abolished by the Suicide Act 1961. Per Wikipedia only two States in the US still listed suicide as a crime by the early 90's, though it did not give details of which two.

Assisted suicide is of course a very different matter or a whole different can of worms if you like. Illegal in most countries, including the UK, though not punishable as murder. Maximum sentance under UK law is 14 years.

I note that rather than the Netherlands, which seems to be the favourite European country to be dragged into the assisted suicide debate, in at least two recent cases UK citizens have travelled to Switzerland to get such assistance not available legally in the UK to commit suicide.

 

What ? Switzerland, homeland of libertarian thinking again in the crossfire ?

As far as I know, the countries in which euthnasia is legal under certain circumstances are the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Danemark and Sweden.

 

As someone from the Netherlands and also someone who's active in the field of healthcare, I think that healthcare isn't just about curing people. It's about helping people. Keeping someone alive as long as possible isn't always helping them. If someone considers the hurt he's going through hard enough to end it all, one should help him. Wether that's by euthanasio or trying to find another solution depends on the variable aspects of that specific situation. I think the same logic applies to suicide.

 

Suicide is illegal here becuase it fits the desciption of homicide. That's all. Killing someone unlawfully. That is my understanding anyway.

 

As was mentioned earlier, suicide is illeghal in order to prevent people from assisting -- I don't think there's anyone here in Canada with a criminal record for attempted suicide

Now, I work with teens, and my first year a guy blew his head off. You should have seen his family. Anyone who would do that to his family is slime.

Now, often it's mental defect, either genetic or temporary (as a result of alcohol or other mind altering drugs), and they don't know the consequences of their actions. So I believe those who try and fail need help, not stigmatization. In some rare cases, perhaps, we should let people do it -- like the elderly person suffering on a respirator -- but to make it accepted carte blanche is dumb. Sorry, very blunt, but dumb it is. I've been to workshops on it and the vast majority of those who have tried and failed, or even seriously considered it, are glad they didn't end up dead. It would be a terrible waste of human life to say that "well, (s)he's sad, so I guess it's OK for him/her to suicide. It's their choice!" Everyone gets sad, everyone can get over it and find happiness later on.

 

Depends on what you mean by euthanesia Yago, as far as I know *active* euthanesia is only legal in the Netherlands. I know that you can pull the plug of life supporting machines here and in Denmark but that is the extent of ou euthanesia.
You should know best about Switzerland but is active euthanesia really legal there? As in doctors giving terminal patients drugs that will kill them?

 

No active euthnasia is not legal here. Indirect is legal. My list of countries included those, which allow indirect euthnasia. Which I did not state explicit. The problem is, that there are 3 different classes of legal situations then, if I didn't forgot a possibility.

1. Not at all

2. Indirect.

3. Direct (and indirect)

So: Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Danemark and Sweden -> Case 2 or 3. The rest would then be case 1.

The obvious problem now is, what does "indirect" and "direct" exactly mean, and that's were differences between countries appear. Because actually in most countries, "indirect" euthnasia is legal too.

[ June 27, 2003, 02:48: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

Sorry if I muddy the waters a bit here but,

1. If a person threatens (with clear intent) to kill another person, that is a crime.

2. Suicide is treated in some countries as murder.

Considering those two things together, is a person who is threatening to commit suicide thereby commiting a crime by threatening himself?

I ask because there was this workplace incident were one male employee told a female employee that he would kill himself (in all seriousness)if she kept rejecting his amorous advances.

This was just a ploy by the male employee, but she was not to know this and was subjected to alot of stress that she did not deserve.

Could she have informed the police and had this person arrested for making the threat of suicide (ignoring the emotional blackmail for now)?

BTW The male employee was a temporary member of staff who was told by the boss that his sevices were no longer required the morning after he made the threat.

 

In Ireland, no, suicide is not a criminal offence.

Same legislation as the UK, though it was passed only in 1993. The Criminal Law (Suicide) Act, 1993.

Having said that, I'm sure other offences like harassment etc might come into play.