ANOTHER question about NPCs....

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I almost always have the exact same party when I play this game (me Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia and an open slot that I can never decide on) and I always play a mage. Well not this time! I've gone for the female ranger, and now I'm hellbent on changing all of my party so that it's different-so who should I go with? I *may* stick with Imoen just because I feel like I should really have her, but... I dunno. I just want a different party, but a *good* party. Also, is there any way to get keep Minsc without Dynaheir in order to pick up Edwin, or is Dynaheir an okay mage?

 

Dynaheir is not a good mage IMO. I just pick up Dynaheir and put out front with no weapons or protection and let her get killed. If that is too cheesy for you, I think you may be able to go rescue her first and then not take her in your party and then go get Minsc. As a Ranger you are defaulted to a good alignment so I imagine that you are going with a promarily not evil group. I like Kivan, he is a good archer and you can get him early. Minsc is a must for me except when I play evil, and I pretty much always take Imoen. Branwen is a decent cleric, and you can pick her up fairly early. Ajantis is a good tank, and he can be gotten early, but I think that he would not tolerate Edwin. I don't really like any of the NPC mages, so I often play in multiplayer and make a mage as my secondary character and then fill the rest with NPCs.

So that would be a full party:
You
Made up mage
Imoen
Kivan
Minsc
Branwen

I'm sure others wont agree, but I am pretty sure I have played that party once, and it worked OK

 

Pretty simple. Grab Minsc, rescue Dynaheir, grab Edwin (he will join you), and get rid of Dynaheir. You can either kill her and then kick her out or kick her out while she's in a different 'area' than you, like in a house or the tavern with Volo. So long as Dynaheir isn't in the party, Minsc and Edwin will never come to blows (the dialogue that starts the fight is actually coded as between Minsc and Dynaheir, believe it or not).

Branwen makes a good cleric for a good party, and for some reason I feel like recommending Kivan to round out the rangers; unfortunately your choice of non-Imoen thieves is rather limited. Montaron is evil, Safana means taking on two or three flesh golems to keep her in the party, and the rest are only available in Chapter Four or Five. Imoen's your best bet.

 

Imoen is really the best thief your going to get and you can keep her a thief. part of what makes her good is that you can pretty much make her the way you want her from the beginning.

Coran can be a good choice if you rush to him and then go back for side stuff but part of that is his 20 dexterity and three bow proficiencies. He's a fighter/thief. He is available in the first cloakwood area when you get into Chapter 4.

Dynaheir is a good mage. You don't need Edwin. Dynaheir can cast Identify. Has better Lore's. Has better stats. She can't summon but that can be gotten around easily enough. with plenty of wands or spell scrolls. She also has an innate slow poison affect which can come in very handy given the ammount of poison that is in BG1.

Xzar believe it or not even being a necromancer is actually the best wizard in the game. Sadly he comes with Montaron, and he's evil. He's got the best overall stats and he can cast pretty much all of the widely useful spells in the game. it's worth giving up the couple of useful illusions like invisibility. There's only like 5 or 6 Illusions total in the game anyway. Two of them are invisibility spells and one is mirror image. But as long as you keep your mage towards the back these spells largely aren't needed to beat the game and it's easy to compensate and make many strategies without them. However he's not a good choice for your game.

People are focusing on Rangers for some bizarre reason but you don't need one. I'm betting your lass is better than Kivan and he's the best ranger in the game. (Yes I know people seem to think Misnc is great. He's friggin idiot and his strength isn't all that impressive in BG1. Get the hell over it. Not to mention is dex and constitution are each 1 worse in BG1 and what little personality he has is even more limited.)

Ajantis is a good character to have because he's a fighter. The Access to his Paladin powers. His high charisma is the best of any of the NPC's with only one other matching it. Combined with Algernon's or the Nymph cloak he can do the buying and selling instead of your PC and he's easy to pick up.

Branwen is a priest that i use often unless I make a priest or druid. Overall Branwen's stats are a little better than Viconia's so that Viconia's magic resistance is the only thing that really stands out.

Jaheira is a little better fighter but she is a fighter/druid. She's worse as a healer. She has the drawbacks of being with Khalid and if you don't take her when you first meet her she is gone forever. Khalid is one of the worse fighter types in the game honestly.

In the end my suggestion would be

Your Ranger
Ajantis
Imoen(or Coran)
Branwen
Dynaheir

now I know this is 5. My Suggestion is that depending on your style You either decide you'll grab Coran eventually...Pick up Kivan for his archery and fighting(or even just to fill the space until you switch him for Coran if you really want) or pick up a second mage such as Xan to round out the magic that you don't have and just plain put more offensive magical power on the table based on how you like to play.

of course if you just want to screw around with the 6th slot. Try out somebody like Garrick(a bard).

[ April 02, 2006, 12:31: Message edited by: starwalker ]

 

Install the "happy party" component from the ease-of-use mod.
Edit the .2DA file manually afterwards so that the NPCs are really happy, not just content, the dialogues are much funnier then.

Ajantis is fun, no one enjoys killing for society as much as this crazy maniac.
Xzar is also funny, Montaron even more.
Tiax is also great and Coran's dialogue is funny.

 

I will just do my duty and recomend the RPG idea of "take whatever seems fitting as you stumble across them." Worked wonders for me so far. Makes for alot of very funny party setups. My last Dwarf forexample found that Ajantis, Branwen, Safana, Garrick and Yeslick made nice traveling companions. Eventually however Safana and Garrick developed a little romance and dropped of at a tavern in Baldurs Gate. So now he is looking out for another scout (or thif if you want to be vulgar).

 

Well, as mentioned I am definitely trying for a good/neutral aligned party. Right now I've got-
Me
Imoen
Kivan
Minsc
Branwen
Edwin

Other than Edwin I'm fairly pleased at the moment. My character does indeed have a much better str than Kivan AND Minsc, so if I should run into someone better I can unload one of those two. I know, story wise, it would have been prudent to leave Dynaheir alive (ahem) but I really just cannot stand her. I would rather completely be without a mage than have to put up with the Xzar/Montaron combo, and while I know that Edwin runs laps around Xan in magery, I just can't help liking the guy (Xan, I mean) so I may decide to pick him up when I get to him.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, and if anyone has another I'm always open to them.

 

I have the same problem with Edwin: he's obnoxious. Probably your best solution, in terms of gameplay, is to pick up Safana--an excellent thief that I took clear through the game--and dual Imoen to mage. (Shar-Teel can also be dualed into an effective thief, if you choose to make Immy your mage.) Alternatively, you can take Xan. I've never played him through, but I've read he can be played clear through without great difficulty. His lack of Evocation spells will be a handicap, but wands will take up some of that.

[ April 03, 2006, 09:26: Message edited by: Cernak ]

 

No...Really. Xan is better than Edwin. Xan has higher stats. He's got that nice weapon that comes with him. His restricted school is much easier to over come unless you want to spend a hellish ammount of money. Edwin just plain sucks in BG1. The only thing that attaches anything at all is he's damned good in BG2. Sure you can use him as your sole mage but he's better off supporting another mage.

However i can understand not liking Dynaheir. Don't get me wrong. I'm with you there. But she's pretty good and little things about her make her good for taking along.

Edwin though is the only mage in the game that either you cannot compensate for his weaknesses in BG1 easily or are of a rather minor matter because of the few number of spells denied that you can just work around. His stats are also the weakest of any of the mages.

 

Cernack nailed it. It's the most obvious solution. Dual Imoen to a mage, and take Safana as your second thief. Yeah, you have to take out three flesh golems and a bunch of Sirines to keep her in the party, but by this point you should already have quite a few characters with magic weapons to deal with the flesh golems. Plus, it's not like you have to fight all three at once - they are in three separate areas of the cave, so you can fight one, chug some healing potions, fight another, etc.

Why do you say that? Khalid has an excellent starting dexterity and constitution. His strength isn't great, but you can get by with 15. Once he gets the GoOP, he typically has the highest strength, dexterity, and constitution of any fighter NPC. No other fighter in the game comes close. Kivan and Minsc don't have great constitution, and Minsc doesn't have particularly good dexterity either. Adjantis has poor dexterity, and his strength and consitution are just average. Shar-Teel has great strength and dexterity, but poor constitution. Kagain has great constitution, but is only OK in terms of strength, and is rather poor in dexterity. Basically, Khalid is the most complete option, because the only below average stat is strength, and that can be fixed easily enough.

 

Ajantis Dex problem is easily over come. Kivan's constitution doesn't really come into play and it's not exactly low. There is also his paladin abilities to consider which are a boon.

Kagain as well. his dexterity is easily overcome. You can get the dexterity gauntlets before you even get the GoOP in face and Kagain has far superior Con to anybody but maybe a PC dwarf with the Con book. Kagain has 20 Con for those of you that want to know but he's evil.

Shar Teel is another that equipped right. which is easy to do. Between her AC and her strength her low Con only comes into play in certain instances and she has the dexterity to make up a bit for her lower con. Though her constitution doesn't actually lose her anything it just don't gain her any bonuses. Also evil so wouldn't really work for the party wanted.

Coran out does him with a 20(Elf with a Dexterity Tome) and 3 proficiencies in bow as well as being a theif. He kind of makes up for being multiclass. which are a little weaker but more widely capable in BG1. This guy is powerful with a bow and his extremely high Dexterity enhances his thieving abilities.

Kivan is also powerful with a bow. On top of that he's well built for picking up a sword and swinging away at stuff if you want him to. Even though the way he comes he gives you almost a preconcieved idea he should be shooting things not hacking and slashing.

Khalid is the most mediocre of the bunch. A Personality that makes Xan likable and just a pair of GoOP doesn't fix everything about him. If it weren't for her Druid restrictions then Jaheira would outdo her own partner and she's multiclass.

Now if they had made Khalid a Fighter/Mage then there would be something very formidable to him. But they didn't.

The only PC's I for sure would rank lower than him in Usefulness are Alora and Tiax the way he is though honestly so I would rather not waste my GoOP on him and rather hand them over to a thief or a Cleric and get yet another person dishing out real damage as well as make most of the NPC thieves in the game something to be reconed with.

Kivan/Coran with Bracers of Archery or Kivan/Shar Teel/ even Minsc/Kagain wearing Bracers of Weapon Specialization is far more potent than wasting the slot and the GoOP on Khalid.

Heck Kagain with the Dexterity Gauntlets and a good set of Armor combined with his high Con can be a nightmare and he doesn't even have an 18/xx strength.

 

Also Khalid is one of the few Pure Fighters in the game, he can actually get Mastery in weapons. Add that to GooP and you have one of the best damage dealers in the game. Kagain can do the same of corse.

If you use Kivan as an Archer (and perhaps even give him the tome of dex and con if you are not to stingy) he makes a most excellent archer, in some ways better than Coran (higher level, more damage becose of STR etc) while he can also double up as Melee if required. Even without GooP or GoD, unlike most other potentional warriors.

And Xan rocks! becose he can not play fireball or magic missle, im so tired of those completelly boring and unimagenative spells! Take a challenge people! Try use different spells! I love using sleep, blindness, lightning bolt, stinking cloud and other spells. confussion can be one of the most satisfying spells to use in the entire game. So Xan is my default pick Mage by now.

"Fireballs... always fireballs, can't the young cast anything else?" -The Magister

 

Shar Teel can also grand master weapons. Grand Mastery and certain other items is just more reason why it's better to put the GoOP on other characters and not your fighters just to get an extra couple of points. All those points you get from the GoOP can be made up and spread out the damage. The level limit in the game as it is makes your characters far more affective when you got more that can do the damage.

If Khalid was somehow special in some way. Say the only one or just one of two that could do something. I'd rate him a lot higher.

Edit:
if your willing to even use the tomes on NPC's though. Several of them make up anything the GoOP gives though because you can give them 19 strength. Khalid can't get this bonus.

[ April 03, 2006, 23:23: Message edited by: starwalker ]

 

Two words: Tutu Tweaks. You can also make Montaron into a single-classed Assassin.

Khalid is not mediocre, he's well-rounded. (Personally, I would have put the 17 into STR and the 15 into CON, but that's just me.) The other NPC fighters are all missing something, specializing in one area or another, which makes them quite powerful with the right equipment, but without all that ridiculous stat-boosting equipment Khalid easily holds his own. He's not the best, but he's not the worst either. Hold on while I make a new thread...

 

I don't know Fel. I used the GoOP and the Dex Gauntlets on other classes far more than I do on the fighter types and I've always been happier with others than I have been with Khalid. Even when I'm just using another plain fighter.

 

Here's the thing, though-
I've played through this game at LEAST three times now, and it's gotten to the point where I want to play with a team that I like, not just in combat but also in personality. (I'm *such* a girl).
So while I will agree that Khalid is actually a truly well-rounded character as a fighter, even if I have had some issues with him on either CON or DEX (he likes to be hit) I HATE Jaheira. Hate her. If she were real I'd spread nasty rumours about her. (I'm kidding, as I don't spread rumours.) So Khalid and Jaheira? Gone.
I picked up Xan and left Edwin fuming in the mines, and I have to admit that even with his few weaknesses-I'm a Magic missile chick, myself-he's pretty good AND I kinda like the guy.
As far as dual-classing Imoen and picking up Safana-I've never done it. Ever. I've never even given Safana a second look. So you know, I think that's exactly what's going to happen in this game.
But in the Khalid argument I have to agree that yes, while he's not the greatest the game has to offer, he is a very good overall character. I'm having issues with Minsc now because he dies all the frickin' time and while I really enjoyed him in BG2 I'm reeaaaaally starting to get annoyed with him here. I've never actually played with him for very long before, since he berserked the last time I tried to pick him up and I'll be ding-donged if that just isn't the most annoying thing ever.
I've still got Kivan now and I have to agree with him being really resourceful as an archer, especially with my char. being an archer as well. I've got Kivan, Imoen and myself standing back and blasting people with arrows, and that works better than I could have ever hoped.
By the way, is there any other option besides Branwen for the cleric? I'm going to have to give her a sling and some bullets soon because she doesn't do a whole lot for me in the 'battle' portions. And I've had just about enough of hearing her shriek out "By Temple's Shield" or whatever it is she says.
(I've been doing homework all night and I'm a little testy, so I apologise.)

 

Oh, don't mind us, sweetie; we were just having our own little argument.

Just wait 'til she starts commenting on "Valkur's strapping buttocks". From the other thread I just opened:

Branwen's the problem, and Jaheira is clearly out. Viccy's evil, Quayle is crap, and both Quayle and Tiax are only available in Chapter 5 (BGC). Faldorn is in Cloakwood, and Yeslick is in the Cloakwood Mines. The bottom line is that there are only three priests available before Chapter Four: Branwen, Jaheira, and Viconia. If you are getting tired of Branwen, though, I'd keep her until the mines and then dump her for Yeslick; he's pretty incredible as an F/C. Give him the Gauntlets of DEX (since noone else will be needing them) and he can tank big time with Bassilus' hammer. Not to mention that his innate Dispel Magic ability will come in very handy for getting rid of Davaeorn's starting protections.

 

Besides Viconia or Branwen(By Torm's Shield) you really have to wait until chapter 4. then pick up either Yeslick or Faldorn... Faldorn can summon up a Dread wolf to fight for her. Yeslick has the dispel magic and is a multi-class.

Faldorn will complain at you too once your rep gets to a certain point. But put some ankheg plate on her and she's pretty decent. Yeslick might be the better choice though. He can use the war hammer with the electric damage quite effectively.(Some call it Bassilus' Hammer) You also don't have to go too much farther on to collect him either.

 

This is why I'm forced to play a cleric every time i want to play most "theme party's" like for example "all elf". Viconia don't count, shes a drow.

 

Drow are still elves. No matter what way you look at it. They breed with another elf and they get an elf... not a half elf.

I never really understood that whole mentality of "drow aren't elves" it's like saying "Druegar aren't dwarves".