Another run through BG1: suggestions please :-)

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Greetings all.

I'm new here on these forums and it's wonderful to see that there are still some who enjoy playing BG, in whichever form . Indeed, an awesome series. Now, to the point of my post:

I'm running through BG1 again, this time with EasyTutu installed so that I can take my party all the way to the Throne of Bhaal. No other mods installed (except XP cap remover) since Tutu includes many bug fixes and I want to play the game in mostly its original form. So I've created 4 characters (multiplayer mode) to take through the series. Only 4 because I don't want to share XP between many characters and an NPC or two can join my party for specific quests. Since I've been through BG 1 and 2 quite a few times I decided to edit the stats of my characters (Shadowkeeper) in order to see how "pure talent" would fair in this series. This is the party that I've created (all characters are of pure classes):

Fighter - all attributes at 25 (main protagonist) - base HP at 20
Cleric - all attributes at 25 except for Int and Cha at 18 - base HP at 17
Thief - all stats at 25 except for Wis and Cha at 18 - base HP at 14
Mage - all stats at 25 except for Str at 18/100 and Cha at 18 - base HP at 11

During the character editing I did not add any extra bonuses as far as proficiencies, saving throws, spells etc., so I'll get to see what "pure talent" will do in the series.

My intention is to dual class the characters at some point in order to make them more effective and to "cover as many skills bases" required for BG 2. Now for the big question: which class do I "dual class" to for each character and when (at what level)?

Thank you in anticipation of responses and suggestions...

 

Welcome to the boards OberonZ.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pure talent" but maxing out stats will probably make the game rather boring and uneventful.

 

Greets Caradhras

I understand your point with regards maxing out the stats. However, I've been through BG 1 ad nauseam so I thought I would do something ridiculously different this time. So far the game hasn't been boring, for example: there is still no possibility of just running up to everything my party comes across and to start hacking away. I still have to pick the course my party takes carefully. Something interesting I've noted: My fighter with a strength of 25 breaks a two-handed sword every few minutes. Ridiculous indeed. Now my party is on the hunt for a magical two-handed sword, hoping that it won't break in the hands of "Sir Bevier" :-)

Anyway, by "pure talent" I mean greatly gifted (attributes) with potential to do great things. Any suggestions with regards dual-classing and when to apply it?

 

If you enable the cheats there is a command to give 18s all across the board to your stats at Character Creation. You could drop stats to minimum so you have a points pool to spend, use the keys to get 18s and then use the point pool to raise the attributes higher. Saves time quitting and editing the save.

As you're using EasyTutu have you considered the Hard Times mod? Adds more challenge from an economic aspect considering your statistical challenges are more or less limited.

I rarely dual class or multi-class. Generally only tend to do it with Imoen so she is the same in BG2

 

If you intend to dual class and since you're using Tutu, I'm curious, why didn't you choose a kit for your characters?

The level at which to dual class depends on your patience and your party (you may want a thief with an active class at all times to save you some annoyance).

If you dual class early you'll benefit from an almost pure class character in SoA (but no kit) and if you wait you'll have a better character in both classes later on. With a four man party there should be no trouble with reaching the level cap in BG1 so if you're patient you could wait until SoA before dual classing some characters (especially the Fighter as level 9 and 13 make a difference).

Not dual classing all your characters at the same time may be a good idea as well since the dual classed characters may need some support while they level up in their new classes.

I don't think there are many benefits in dual classing a spellcaster class into a non spellcaster class though. A Cleric dualled into Mage benefits from shields, helms, hitpoints and low cleric spells but a Mage dualled into Cleric will lose out on hitpoints in the long run.

Alignment limits dual classing by the way (just pointing this out if you wanted to make a Fighter Druid).

I would have started with a Ranger (Beastmaster or preferably plain class) dualled into Cleric as the opposite isn't as good (no higher level spellcasting and less hitpoints).

And I would have skipped the Mage. I would have made a Fighter or a Thief (or even a Cleric) and then dualled to Mage after a few levels for some weapon proficiencies and minor perks. This character would have been almost as good as a regular Mage (no specialty though). As it is I wouldn't dual the Mage and just play with an Elf Wild Mage (Wild Mages are the best and certainly the most entertaining spellcasters).

 

Alright then. I'll forget this idea and use kits. Thanks to those who responded. To any moderators: kindly remove this thread as it no longer serves a purpose. Thanks.

 

In BG2, the whole point of dual classing vs multiclassing is that it allows you to use kits.

For instance, if your Thief/Mage is never going to backstab, it certainly won't hurt your character build to make a Swashbuckler/Mage if you're going for a dual class.

 

This is true. Just compare the vanilla fighter/cleric to the everpopular berserker/cleric. You'll get the excellent Enrage ability with the cost of losing specialization in ranged weapons - which in this case would mean slings anyway.

Since overpowered characters aren't an issue here, you could use SK and assign a kit to the second class. Fighter/Assassin with a 25 STR would make nasty backstabs at higher levels .

 

Berserker/Druid is even better if you want more offence.

 

Backstab multipliers aren't applied to strength damage bonuses. (The bonus still counts, but only once; it doesn't get multiplied.)

 

Very good point Splunge.

 

Right, I'm no longer bummed that my original plans wouldn't work out. I've considered the suggestions and comments made thus far, and since I hadn't done much yet I decided to start again. Here is my new party:

STR CON DEX INT WIS CHA
Half-orc Berserker 20 20 20 10 10 18
Half-elf Cleric (Helm) 18 18 18 10 18 10
Elven Thief 18 17 20 10 15 12
Elven Mage 14 17 19 18 15 12

I decided not to overdo the attribute points, leaving incentive to find the tomes and use them for attribute points of particular characters. For example: an extra point in STR for my fighter will result in the next tier of bonuses. I've done the same with WIS for the cleric, DEX for the thief etc.

Other "little bonuses" added to my characters:

Fighter - gave him * in each weapon proficiency and fighting style, except for anything related to ranged weapons

Cleric - gave him * in all blunt weapon proficiencies and sling, also for shield with weapon style

Thief - gave him * in long sword, short sword, dagger, short bow and added 10 points to his detect traps, lock pick and pick pocket

Mage - gave him * in sling, dagger, dart, short sword and quarter staff. Also added one extra first lvl spell slot for memorized spells. I really wanted to give him an innate ability to cast something like shield or mirror image, but I couldn't figure out how to do so with Shadowkeeper, so he'll have to go without it.

So, what does the community think of my new party???

Also, a few questions regarding dual classing for clarity:

Fighter - I'd like to try the suggestion of dual-classing to a berserker/cleric. Comments?

Cleric - Maybe dual-class to cleric/fighter or cleric/druid? No idea what would work well here. Any suggestions?

Thief - Definitely going to dual-class this character to thief/mage. I intend to do so the moment all of his thieving skills are at 100%, which shouldn't take very long.

Now the questions for clarity:

If I dual class a character at a certain level, does this imply that the character is no longer considered to be of the original class, therefore considered to be of the second class until such point as the second class level reaches the same as that of the original class? Does the character lose ALL abilities associated with the original class until the second class reaches the same level as the original? Once the levels are equal (or just about), does the character then gain ALL the abilities associated with both classes? Is there any advantage whatsoever if I immediately dual-class my berserker to berserker/cleric? Remember, XP cap is of no consideration here.

I'm aiming for a party that is well-balanced with a maximum of 4 PCs. NPCs that join the party for access to specific quests don't count...

Thanks in advance :-)

 

Careful messing about with proficiencies, it might not let you level up at certain points if you run out of slots to allocate them to.

Yes.

Of their relative levels. A level 3 Thief dualed to level 4 cleric will still have level 3 thief abillities, hp, etc, and only lvl 4 cleric abilities.

 

Thanks for the heads up 8people, I'll remove a few proficiency points from the characters in order to prevent any problems. Any suggestions/comments on what to dual-class my cleric and/or berserker with and when?

 

Only humans are allowed to dual class, so you can't dual class anyone in your party. I don't know if its possible via Shadowkeeper,though. You probably need to make your half-orc a multiclass fighter/cleric and then SK it to a berserker/cleric. Same applies to the half-elf cleric. Ranger/cleric (no SK needed unless you want to assign a kit) is one of the better multiclass options, if you like melee-oriented characters with casting ability. Dualclassing a (human) cleric isn't IMO a good choice -see Caradhras post above. A Cleric-> Mage might be an interesting choice, but the cleric levels don't give much to this build.

 

Thanks Kullervo. Next action is to change the berserker and thief to human...

 

You have to take into account the kits and their benefits.

I'd make the Thief a Swashbuckler and dual him after maxing out traps and locks (ignore the rest if you don't want to wait for ToB to get your abilities back) since backstab is out this character will be a trap disabler and lock picker. You can always use potions if you want to pick pockets or steal from stores later on (they stack).

You can't make a Cleric/Druid. I'd suggest starting as a Ranger and then dual to Cleric (to get both Cleric and Druid spells).

Don't dual class a spellcaster into a fighter class, that is not such a good idea.

If you want a Mage dual class, don't start as one. You want high level spells and you'll lose out on HP if you do). Fighter -> Mage works fine even if you dual at level 3 (minor advantage) or level 7 (fair advantage) or wait for level 9 (max HP) or 13 (max attacks). By waiting for level 13 you'll only lose on Fighter HLAs (high level abilities). If you don't want to wait for ages then level 7 isn't that bad actually.

I'd still like to stress out the major usefulness of a Wild Mage at higher levels. If you want to Dual Class, you could consider a Thief dualled into Mage and use SK to give it the Wild Mage kit (it will be effective once you level up as a Mage). Of course that rules out the possibility of using a kit for the Thief class but that is a very fair trade and you'll have a very interesting game.

Regarding the Berserker/Cleric, I prefer the Berserker/Druid, for a more in depth discussion, check this thread.

I also would like to point out an old thread I started: link.

If you're patient, a Swasbuckler/Fighter can be a really good character. If you don't mind not being able to use backstab, the Swashbuckler bonuses can really make up for the lower HP compared to a pure Fighter). A Swashbuckler/Cleric works very nicely as well since you won't backstab anyway with a Cleric/Thief (unless using the staff trick).

 

I agree, Swashbuckler dualled to a Mage is a great choice. Assassin/Mage or Bounty Hunter/Mage both sound cool RP-wise, but their kit benefits aren't that great at low levels - Swashie gets nice abilities at lower levels and more points to thieving abilities. When I played the whole saga with a Swashbuckler/Mage, I dualled him at level 10 (AC and hit bonuses come every 5 levels). The transition period wasn't too long and after that he was basicly a spellsword with thieving abilities.

Berserker/Druid makes definitely more sense, with the exception of evil Berserker/Cleric, which would make him a cleric of Talos (or give access to that stronghold at least). But since there already is a cleric in the group, dual classing to a druid is a good option. Remember not to overlap weapon proficiencies after dual classing.

 

Good point regarding weapon proficiencies.

I know you didn't mean it that way, but you can't have two kits so the Berserker/Cleric of Talos thing doesn't really work (the stronghold is another thing).

 

After much reading I have decided on what I'm going to do with my party:

Main Protagonist
Half-orc Berserker - STR 20, CON 20, DEX 20, INT 9, WIS 18, CHA 18
Yes, his attributes points are somewhat "special", but he's a child of Bhaal, go figure :-)
If the party makes it through BG1 and ToSC, then I plan to dual-class him to druid at lvl13. But for BG1 and ToSC he'll simply remain a berserker.

Character #2: Main protagonist's little brother (not Bhaalspawn)
Elven fighter/cleric (multi) - STR 18, CON 18, DEX 18, INT 8, WIS 18, CHA 8.
His attribute points are also a little special, but clearly not as amazing as those of his Bhaalspawn sibling. The essence of Bhaal remained with his mother for a little after the birth of his sibling, hence his superhero attributes. He follows his bigger brother everywhere. Leveling up will come very slowly for him, so this character won't be all that potent at the end of ToSC, but he should remain quite useful. If he sticks with his brother all the way to the fulfillment of his brother's destiny, then he'll seriously become a force to be reckoned with.

Character #3: Friend of a friend (bosom pal of character #4)
Human thief - STR 17, CON 16, DEX 19, INT 18, WIS 10, CHA 8.
A very talented adventurer and member of the party's brains trust. As soon as his open locks and find traps are at 100%, while pick-pocket and set traps are at 50%, then I'm dual-classing him to a mage. I project that this might occur at about level 6/7, so ToSC is going to very interesting without much help from a thief.

Character #4: A friend of Gorian, looking out for the Bhaalspawn
Elven mage - STR 14, CON 17, DEX 19, INT 18, WIS 15, CHA 8.
Leader of the party's brains trust. For BG1 he is a necessary ally. He has gained the knowledge of the Bhaalspawn and associated prophecies through Gorian, keeping the information to himself. This character holds the key to the Bhaalspawn's ultimate success or failure. It remains to be seen whether he'll support the Bhaalspawn all the way to fulfilling his destiny, or ultimately turn on him at the final showdown in order to rid the world of all Bhaalspawn (ToB).

I'm playing the game with the difficulty setting on "core rules", so it's going to be a little tougher than the default difficulty. Also, with only 4 party members, a low-level cleric for most of BG1 and ToSC and no thief in the later stages, this is going to be a challenging game. The challenge won't end there. If I take this party all the way to the throne, then I'll be without a berserker and a thief for a quite a while in Amn. Still, I reckon this could be a lot of fun...

Thank you kindly for the advice, suggestions, clarification and honesty expressed here by the respondents. I'll keep posting in this thread to inform those interested on my party's progress.

And now........

A sheepish request: I've started this thread on the wrong forum (face palm). Could a forgiving moderator move this thread to the relevant forum, pretty please? It won't happen again, I swear it... :-P