Any finesseable (?) bludgeoning weapons?

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Just wonderin'.

[ February 03, 2007, 05:32: Message edited by: Klorox ]

 

Really don't think there is any.

 

Nope. Finesse is only for small-sized or less bladed weapons + the Rapier.

 

Are there any rapiers in IWD2?

 

Nope, you're pretty much stuck with finessing daggers or short swords.

 

Although, I believe that Weimer's Ease of Use mod has a compnent that allows monks' fists to use the Weapon Finesse feat.

 

Doesn´t count the clubs like finesseable weapons?

Because in NN they do it.

 

The only current finesse-able weapons are "small blades", i.e. daggers and short swords.

To the best of my knowledge, the only way to mod in new finesseable weapons would be to classify them as "small blades", regardless of whether they're actually small bladed weapons or not. That is, if someone wanted to have finesseable handaxes or light maces or rapiers, they'd all have to be classified as "small blades" within the ITM's file structure. And, for better or worse, any skill (i.e. feats) you have in axe, mace, or large blades would be meaningless within IWD2.. The only feat that would help out your finesseable handaxe, light mace, or rapier would be the small blades feat.

 

I believe that you are 100% correct in that, crucis.

 

Acrux, this thread has convinced me to create some additional "light" weapons for my new mod. Maybe also convert handaxes to "small blades" so that they can be considered "light weapons". Ditto for the very few light maces that may be in the game as well. Maybe we should just think of the "Small blades" type as the "light weapons" type, regardless of whether the weapon in question is a dagger, handaxe, or a light mace.


Come to think of it, there really aren't all that many handaxes in the game. There's just the unenchanted and MW handaxes and a "Handaxe of Expertise +1", which just appears to be a sure-striking handaxe. Hmmmmmm.

I'll have to dig thru the items and see how many light maces there are. The only potential one that easily comes to mind is the Azure Rod.

BTW, something to consider with handaxes. Right now, handaxes are likely 3x crit weapons. If I change them to being Small Blades for finesse-ability, they'll become 2x crit weapons. So I guess I'd ask, what is more important having a 3x crit handaxe that a non-finesse-able "Axe" or a 2x crit handaxe that *is* finesse-able? I'd think that given how unlikely people are to use mere handaxes right now, making them light weapons would be a good thing.

[ February 09, 2007, 04:39: Message edited by: crucis ]

 

EoU also has a component to make magically created weapons finesseable. A finesseable Mordenkainen's Sword is nice.

 

Adding several "ersatz" small bladed weapons would certainly be interesting. The main downside I can see to this is that there are already several excellent "small blade" weapons in the game. So, this could create an overabundance of this weapon type in the game.

A small matter, really, but something to consider.

I like the idea all in all. It would be great if other weapon proficiencies could be used, but without some major code change i don't think that's possible.

On a related issue, though slightly off topic: One of the things I like least about 3rd Ed. rules is that so many weapons are now grouped together into relatively large categories (so daggers and short swords are together, and so on).

That being said, I would love to see an increase in the "underrepresented items" in the game. Spears, scimitars, etc.

 

My intention really isn't to add all that many of these "ersatz" small bladed weapons. Only a small number. It won't be a problem

I think that this may be more of a IWD2 thing, than a 3e thing. If each different weapon had to have its own seperate line on the Feats screen, it would have added a LOT more lines and Feats.

Regardless, it's nice to not have to take feats in each individual weapon. That's just a pain.

How about telling me what you think are the underrepresented items/weapons/armors in the game? Beyond spears and scimitars, of course.

 

Definitely IWD2 mechanics instead of 3.0. 3.0 was actually problematic because they divided up too many things. Weapon finesse had to be taken in the fashion of "Weapon Finesse (dagger)" or "Weapon Finesse (bite)". They had ultra specific skills like Innuendo, Intuit Direction, Read Lips and Scry, the skill Ride had to be taken for each different animal one desired to ride and the Knowledge and Perform skills where rather messy (all further complicated by the fact that classes like rangers and bards didn't receive enough skill points). IWD2 actually does a nice job with the mess of 3.0. 3.0 was really a bad system in retrospect, but IWD2's implementation stop 3.0's feats and skills from seeming so overwhelming.

 

I agree with Ilmater's: IWD2 does a fine job with some of the mess in 3E. I think it's good that they have slightly fewer categories for weapon types.

@crusis. It would be nice to have some other weapon types finessable, even if they are considered small blades. You can always think of that feat as "small weapons" instead. There are quite many finessable weapons in D&D like punching daggers, light maces, light hammers, handaxes, and picks (and some other exotic ones).

There are quite manu spear-type weapons in 3E you could include (within the polearm feat): Lance (1d8 20x3), guisarme & ranseur (2d4 20x3), glaive (1d10 20x3). All are almost like spears/halberds but slightly different in appearance and damage outputs.
Some 2-handed bludgeoning weapons could be nice if they are possible to add within their resp. feats (like heavy flails, Great clubs and maybe some kind of great hammer). Maybe a few more warhammers and flails would be nice.

 

I never thought a "glaive" was a polearm. Some weird translation IMHO. Where I come from glaive is the name given to the short sword Roman legionnaries used.

 

Caradhras, that would be a Gladius, not a Glaive.

 

All good comments, Mudde. Thanks.

I didn't bother including in my previous post a few things about creating truly new items. The biggest hurdle, IMHO, is that some weapons do not have any existing animation that comes close to matching them.

For example, a glaive is just a polearm with a slashing head. That's no problem. Just use the spear animation with the overhead/backhand/stabbing percentages adjusted for a slashing weapon.

OTOH, there's really nothing that looks like a pick. And there are no weapons with a x4 crit modifier.

BAMs are a lesser issue, although creating BAMs is far less troublesome than non-existant weapon animations.

Something else ... greatclubs. Greatclubs are a 2H weapon. There's no weapon animation for a 2H club. Now, if people could live with seeing a 2H club being used onscreen one-handed, then making a greatclub is no biggie.

Another thing. Remember that there's really no control over what the critical hit multiplier or range (i.e. 20 or 19-20) will be. To the best of my knowledge, it's going to be assigned by weapon type. Now, for the most part, this isn't that big a problem since the weapons that are typed together appear to usually have the same crit stats.

Something else about the various polearms you've kindly listed. From that I've been able to deduce from the 3.5 PHB, some of the reasons why a player might prefer a guisarme (2d4 slashing) over a glaive (1d10 slashing) are things that are irrelevant in IWD2, like using the weapon to trip or hook an opponent. That said, with all but the fact that they're all just slashing polearms removed, there seems little point in creating different flavors of slashing polearm. The biggest difficulty that I can see regarding ranseurs and guisarmes is that their weapon heads are rather different from the normal halberd/spear head. I was able to sleeze my way thru the lesser differences in a glaive because its head looks rather similar to a broad-headed spear tip. I suppose that one could make a Ransuer from that BG2 BAM for the Ravager halberd (that frankly looks more like a trident head anyways).


I just wanted to mention some of the difficulties about modding in new weapons, just to make make clear that some new weapons are more difficult than others. And some are outright impossible to properly emulate.

 

Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online:

We still use the word "glaive" in modern French and IMHO it's weird to apply it to a polearm. The "lance" thing must come from the English (they never recovered from the Norman Conquest)
In French we would never use that word to refer to a spear.
Shakespeare... not Shakesglaive!!!

 

Hmmh... it would seem that Gladius is, indeed, called glaive in French. Although, if Wikipedia is to be believed, it originally meant Spear both in English and in French. But that was before 1500, after which it began to mean the sword. So, I don't doubt that it means gladius in French novadays.

However, this is getting all too offtopic. Carry on, fellow members!