Arguing on sensitive topics, Jack Funk inspired

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I was going to post this in a thread where Jack stated he must be insane to continue arguing but thought it too off topic.

This might rub some people the wrong way, but here it goes.

I remember being frustrated once by something I read, it was so baseless and sterotyped. Then I clicked on the profile and saw it was a 14 year old kid. I settled down.

Here is the contoversial part: there is a reason when you picture a wise person you don't picture a kid. I now know that I'm not particularly smart, that I have no special knowledge, that I only have opinions and that I'm responsible for making sure that those are based on reasoned logic grounded by fact.

When I was a kid I thought I was smart, I hadn't had a chance to learn and experience, most of what I believed was a result of the sterotypes with which I lived.

It wasn't until I got out in the world, travelled, and was slapped in the face by the reality of the world that I started to think more critically.

I think it wouldn't be bad to require everyone to put their age in their profile. : ) (checked my profile, my age isn't there.)

I'm not saying that just because someone is young their opinion should be discounted. There is a reason 13 year olds don't vote though, you have to admit.

My initial indignation at some of the silly things I used to read here is gone because I realize so many kids read and post here. I have no problem with this, I welcome it, but my expectations of what I'll find here is tempered by this fact.

I know that had I read this when I was younger I'd be outraged, but there it is.

 

You shouldn't judge people by their ages. Although it is the approach of most people.

I think it's the persons individual experience and circumstances that are important - sure when you are older you would have experienced more, but that doesn't neccessarily mean you are better or smarter than somone younger. Everyone has intelligence but in different subjects.

This forum is to have fun and help each other - surely younger people can have a decent input to that?

So why don't you put your age on your profile and let us judge, you've probably judged all of us.

 

What's the average maturity level of a 13 or 14 your old? that is why I personally am very wary of what a kid says to me. I know very few mature 13 or 14 year olds (and all them are cadets in my Civil Air Patrol squadron, all of them!)
Anyway, my view is that for the most part age is a factor, not because of intellect, that's another issue entirely, but experience. I doubt that a 13 or 14 year old has as much experience as someone my age, just as I know that someone several years older than myself has more experience and working knowledge of the world (I'm 22 years old myself.) I just want to say that I agree with the author of this post.

 

Laches,
I have considered that. I did not want to insult anyone by stating it, but I think you made your point without being insulting (8peoples reply not withstanding). I agree that teenagers can be very opinionated and compulsive about demonstrating it.

I am 36. When I was a teenager I had very strong opinions about topics of which I had very little real knowledge. Much of my attitude and opinion was based on my parents, teachers, friends, and the media. As I grew older, I realized that most of these sources were limited by there own bias/agenda/baggage.

Many times I have responded to an incendiary post by requesting that the poster provide:
* some sources (if they are claiming something to be a fact)
* some insight into their position (why do you hate the USA at age 14?)
These requests are regularly ignored. The first question is in the interest of keeping the discussion honest. The second is so I can understand why someone from Sweden (for example) has come to their conclusions.

You mention critical thinking. I would encourage everyone here to question WHY they think the way the think about EVERYTHING. If you let other people form your opinions for you, you have given away an opportunity to think for yourself.

[ October 22, 2002, 22:59: Message edited by: Jack Funk ]

 

Well, I know I'm just a young kid compared to many of you (BTA!!! ), but I'm also aware the many adults like to be unaproachable. I have only talked to a few adults personally that haven't immediately assumed that whatever I have to say isn't important enough for them.

It's also hard for me because every time I talk to older people, I am constantly conscious that they like to disagree with me and support it so strongly, I'm left abashed. I mean, I know I'm a long ways from being wise or even mature enough to understand the world and how it works, but when I'm put down constantly by older people who know more about it, it doesn't really make me FEEL like I'm growing up. Sure, I nod and smile motionning that I understand and take mental notes on what they're saying, as if I'm being taught a lesson, but inside - like probably a lot of kids feel - I feel like smacking them for telling me better.

And even now, I feel that people are going to be on their computer, reading this, and saying, "That girl is such an idiot. Typical for a 13 y/o. Of course adults do that, kids need to learn, and how else are they sopposed to learn if they aren't taught and corrected?" It is better to learn by myself? Or be constantly taught/corrected wherever I state MY opinion? And if yes, shouldn't you first put yourself in my place before you reassume your place? It also strikes me that when adults say, "I understand," do they, or do they say that just because they 'understand' that I'm growing up and having very confusing times, but not really knowing what the hell I'm talking about?

It's not like I don't WANT to be taught, but I think it's better sometimes if ADULTS shut up sometimes, and not vice versa.

[ October 22, 2002, 23:27: Message edited by: S Goddess ]

 

I see the world very differently at 32 than I did at 14 or 15.

I think I'm more tolerant than I was back then. I recognize and accept that other people have ideas, opinions, and beliefs that are different than mine. I try to understand why or how someone thinks, rather than just saying "no, you are wrong". Not that I don't state my opinions, but I do try to look at things from different perspectives more now than I did back then.

I have learned a lot, but the one thing I think I have learned the most is how much there is that I don't know!

 

I think Tal's right...we would have a bunch of 12 year olds claming they'er 21 or older. The only real way to check to see if a person is over 18 is to require them to give their credit card info.

 

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that there is an age limit at which point your opinion becomes relevant. I'll always read what anyone of any age posts if it is an interesting post. But, when I see something crazy, it doesn't bother me so much when it comes from a young kid rather than someone who is older and should "know better." Kids get more slack.

And Tal, BTA and Kitrax, the bit about the age requirement was tongue in cheek. I wasn't really suggesting it, just making a point. I enjoy the board and don't want to be misconstrued as criticizing.

 

yeah, I think I also cut younger people more slack when they're making a poor argument... But, strangely, I don't cut older people much slack when they throw my age in my face as an argument.

 

I don't discount everything that every 13 and 14 year old says to me because of their age. If they phrase what they're saying with foresight and a little thought I'll listen to them. A good example of this is the post that Shadow Goddess added to this thread, that's the kind of thing I can and will listen to (nice post by the way.)

 

I'm 13, and while I don't claim to be the smartest kid ever I am however pretty proud of my grammar & spelling (and English isn't my native language). I think I'm mature-ish for my age...I don't run around yahooing, smashing car windows, listin to musics that shakes the earth when played (in fact I listin to Opera, my favourite's the Phantom of the Opera ) and do stuff that other teenagers do.

Back on the topic...a lot of people judge somebody by their age (most time I say something that could really be considered and may be philosophical they just laugh), but I know why they do it, I mean, you won't expect a 13 year old to quote Shakespeare, and even if they did, you probably won't be listing either. I've cool with been treated as a kid my age, but I can't stand people who treat me as if I'm barely able to walk. I know it's because they care, but I can't stand it...I suppose that's not a sign of maturity. What did I just type anyway?

 

I had an experience like BTA's. In kindergarten (i.e. 5 years of age), I was being told one birthday date by the instructor, and the correct one by my mother. The school, one way or another, had it wrong on the forms.

My mother had to finally go down and have it corrected.

Other than that little piece of totally interesting trivia, isn't Jack Funk the kid/guy that's doing some kind of Christian/religious comics?

I've seen a paradoy of them, somewhere. Basically cracked me up. As Ventura puts it, "...organized religion is a crutch for the weak minded...".

And I'd have to say I'm much more tolerant too. Between the ages of 5 and 18, you're in school. It's such a restricted environment, it's akin to serving a prison sentence or floating on a boat out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. When you finally get out, and are completely responsible for yourself and have to deal with the consequences (which can very easily include an actual prison cell), it feels a little different.

On a related side note, I take it as a personal compliment when I get asked for photo identification at the liquor store. =)

 

I honestly hate it when people look down on me because of my age. Often I find people completly disregarding younger people's opinion for that reason, even though the younger person has a point. Anyway, most people here are rather open about their age, and why do you need to see their age to make a comeback against them anyway? (For surely that is what you would need it for)
So, treat younger people as you would anyone else. If they say something baseless and stereotypical you are well within your rights to destroy their illusions. It would be doing them a favour, though they may not think so at the time.

 

When i meet someone I try not to judge people, whether on their appearence, age or anything else.

I don't like it when people make stereotypes of people or treat them differently because of a certain trait they have that people aren't used to or don't understand.

People have always treated me differently because I am disabled in several ways. People keep thinking I am stupid because I can't walk properly but if I was I wouldn't be in the school I am in now. When I was able to walk though people treated me like everyone else and listened to me now they treat me like I can't tell the difference between a cat and a dog. Even my family changed towards me once we got a name for my problems.

Sure there are teenagers or whoever who go with the crowd being vandals and whatever - but if they were here you'd be able to tell. There are always exceptions to every case and you shouldn't judge to harshly.

 

Heh. That's Jack Chick, ejsmith. Messed up dude, that.

It's easy to cut people slack when they're younger. But I don't think we should fail to point out when their arguments don't make sense. That's part of how they come to think critically, and I'll wager that some of the teenagers on SP will have sharper debating and verbal skills because of the trial-by-fire they've gone through on the boards.

 

Shralp, thanks for clearing up the Jack Chick comment. He is a freak.

I read all of the posts that are on topics that I am interested in. What I find is that most of the wild rhetoric comes from teenagers.
If young people want to be taken seriously, and from the posts above it seems that many do, then try to think before you act.
If you offer something as fact, make sure that it is.
If you want to offer your opinion, then go right ahead. But if your opinion is "America is so cool, I wish I was like them. NOT" then don't expect to be taken seriously.
It is interesting that most of the teens who posted in this tread are the ones who seem to avoid the type of behavior that makes me cringe. I usually like reading posts by Shadow and 8people.

Edit: removed quote

[ October 23, 2002, 21:29: Message edited by: Jack Funk ]

 

I'm 14! There! Do I care? Does anyone else? NO! And look, i'm a staff member too! I agree with you on the fact that in a political discussion. Most people my age are not going to be able to contribute much to the topic. But on a games topic or maybe a book, a younger person would be able to contribute just as much as the next person, regardless of age. Take wildfire, (forgive me here if I do get get your age wrong) He's a couple of years older than me, alot of people would still call that age as 'kid'. But, what i've noticed is he's a darn lot smarter than many of the over 20s here. And many people may sound immature, but that could be down to if their first language isn't English.

[ October 23, 2002, 17:47: Message edited by: Z-Layrex ]

 

There is a reason why 13 year old don't vote. Right. There should be an equal law denying half of any adult population from voting. Wisdom is in individuals' heads not in their beards, so to say. Age is of no consequence. Low age is a reminder but not a rule of poor wisdom. Though, blinding stupidity/narrowminded sometimes grow with age.

Instead of taking a distance to kid's opinions, guide them. If nothing else, guide them about how they argue instead of what they argue about.

[ October 23, 2002, 18:27: Message edited by: Nobleman ]