Ashamed of success?

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This thread is inspired by the one on Fred Thompson in AoLS, but I think it belongs here. Sorry if I'm wrong about the placement.

The statements that got me thinking were the ones on Fred "not being ashamed" of America, and the subsequent accusation of "flag waving". I've been thinking about my education as a child in concepts like the glories of multiculturalism and the evils of ethnocentrism. As it was framed to me, of course, these concepts are great, but the more I think of it the more I believe that the subtext was one that encourages self-loathing of the WASP culture and Judeo-Christian worldview. Certainly University was a lot more explcit in its attacks on European culture and traditions.

That got me thinking about Paris Hilton (weird, eh?) Everyone likes to kick her around, including me. But the fact is that she comes from a financially successful family. Sure, she's pampered, spoiled and out of touch with reality. But does her wealth automatically make her a bad person, or her family a bad family? Sure, it's easy to say that her family got wealthy on the backs of poor people, but before you say that you have to prove it, as they should get the same benefit of the doubt that we try to give to every citizen.

Many people like to accuse Liberals of fostering this self-loathing and guilt-ridden thought patterns in western culture. I know I have done so in the past. But to do so is an oversimplification, I believe. If the Liberal message isn't that (and I don't believe it is), then I ask them, what ARE they saying? I mean, it's a leading question to ask "should we be ashamed of our success?" Yet that's exactly how I've felt I've been pushed in times past. Maybe I'm confused or too cynical. I'm trying to see the all sides here.

 

Essentially, that success comes with responsibility. That we shouldn't ignore and dismiss the negative effects of our actions, and should instead address them. Conservatives (not saying you here) like to dismiss it as "liberal whining" or "America-bashing" or "self loathing" when a liberal says "you know, I sure appreciate the low cost of my consumer goods, but isn't it wrong that it was gained on the backs of child labor and at the expense of indigenous economies in smaller countries? I also appreciate access to fine lumbers to build my deck with, but was it necessary to clearcut an old-growth forest to do it? Can't we do this in a more responsible manner?" It seems like some people feel we should just shut up and enjoy our good fortune, turning a blind eye to the damage the acquisition of that good fortune caused elsewhere.

The same can be said with regards to anti-American sentiment in the Middle East, for example. The conservative line for many years has been "they hate and envy us because of our freedoms." Bush has said it a million times. But when it's pointed out that the issue is far more complicated than that, that just perhaps, American foreign policy and American corporate muscle tend to piss off much of the world (and rightly so), rather than addressing the roots of the problem such talk is merely dismissed as America bashing and weak-kneed liberal self-loathing.

We should only be "ashamed of our success" when it's won at someone else's expense and the winners could care less about the negative side effects (which, God forbid, might hurt the bottom line).

My equally cynical

 

There's never anything wrong with a bit of modesty.

 

Especially how it looks on the outside. I don't know many people who honestly think the US anything less than a superpower, but what some people there consider patriotism comes out as quite the arrogance when viewed from the outside.

 

I'm saying that introspection is a good thing. I'm saying that acknowledging one's errors is a good thing, as it's a bit hard to fix errors if you, y'know, don't think you've made any (does this sound like any administration currently holding power?). It's hard to own up to and correct wrongdoing if you refuse to acknowledge you've done wrong.

In one sentence: I'm saying that if my countrymen want to claim that America and capitalism are the bestest things in the world, I'm damned well going to hold them to that standard.

We're good? Cool; let's stop supporting dictators. We're good? Let's admit our errors. We're good? Maybe we should quit with the torture/rendition/indefinite detention stuff. We're good? Maybe we should try to provide the 47 million uninsured Americans with preventative care. We're good? How about addressing the issue of gangs and endemic poverty. And so on.

 

LKD - Did you read the piece by Thompson?

Well, here we are with the topic of how great it is to be an American. But...

So now the subject is not how great it is to live in America, but about how there are those who don't support the War in Iraq. Oh, no! They obviously don't believe all that Thompson has written in his intro. Note the line, "Over the years, a lot of people have tried to talk us out of feeling about America the way we do. Instead of pride in what America has done, they want us to feel guilty — generally because we have so much more than rest of the world." But the sub-text is "those who are not with us."

Since you brought it up, LKD, are you an American? If not, then did you know that I am "freer" than you are? did you know that I am more "prosperous" than you? Let's see what else am I compared to you...well, as Thompson says, I have "generally, so much more than you."

But take heart, LKD, Thompson has the solution for you:

See? all you have to do is "embrace" freedom and you will have everything I have - "generally" speaking, of course.

But everything is not well in the Garden of Eden, Thompson goes on to say, and of course it's those with the "axes to grind." And it appers they are using them to clear-cut the garden of freedom and enlightenment and plant "ignorant" college seniors in the places of the once mighty oaks, which have gone before - you know, those good, strudy "pioneering" oaks.

No, those college seniors know much less about the founding of our country than, say, your basic high school drop-out, or, better yet, your average high school grad, who is at home diligently studying the Constitution and rereading the Declaration of Independence between the Bud commercials during WWF wrestling. And they know the real meaning of Memorial Day - another reason to have a big sale at Walmart. I mean how American is that?

But if only those axe-wielding college seniors knew as much about American history as the average check-out person at Walmart then there would be no question of "why we are in Iraq." We don't need anyone asking such questions on Memorial Day. Oh, that's right! The topic was "American success." Sorry everyone, I confused the topic of "American success" with the American War in Iraq. My bad ....

[ September 14, 2007, 06:52: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

Helluva post, Chandos. I admit that the Thompson piece was part of my inspiration for this thread, but I put it in Angles because I was thinking about how this idea of "self loathing vs. positive introspection" applies to all Western culture. Here's some of my thoughts on what's been said so far in response:

When I go out to buy something, I do not head over to the Wal-Mart and say "huh, I am sure glad other people are suffering horribly so I can get this item! I hate them anyhow because they are all different skin colour than I am. They deserve to suffer so I can be comfortable!"

I'm actually thinking about how I'm going to pay the rent this month as well as my child support, car payment, and other bills, not to mention what I'm going to teach at work tomorrow, whether I'm going to be able to SEE my kids this month, and whether I'm going to get a date at some point in the near future. In other words, I'm living my life as best as I can, and just because I don't spend every waking minute reminding myself that I AM more fortunate than a lot of people in the world doesn't make me a bad, stupid, bigoted, or selfish person.

In addition, while I agree that our behaviours in the developed world can effect those less fortunate, me spending all of my time stressing about the situation will not significantly improve their lot, and in fact could just ruin my own health (I have a friend, no joke and no BS, who has worked himself into a frenzy about this sort of thing and is now in therapy -- laugh if you want but I don't think it's very bloody funny.)

The stuff you mentioned Chandos about America being "more free" has always bugged me (as it seems to bug you) and you're right, it's often just a cover for "kowtow to our wishes". By the same token, I've come to suspect that "don't be ethnocentric" is sometimes a cover for "hate your own culture and heritage and slag it at every opportunity." I'm all for the introspection that AMaster advocates -- there's PLENTY to criticize about Western culture. But as we are so doing I think it is OK to look at the many, many good elements of said culture as well.

 

I came across a sentence that better expresses what I was trying to get across:

"True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else." - Clarence Darrow

 

The envy of "success" causes the retributive detraction.