Axis of evil, 1 more contender

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Is any one but me in the least concerned by the North Korean forces that can now justify any attack made outside UN sanction? I don't think that it has really sunk in to many people that there is a HUGE threat to the majority of the Australasian countries. How will the 'Coalition of the Willing' react to an attack made on Japan, or South Korea etc. by the North Koreans? It seems to me like we have a loose cannon and it is one that relly IS armed with WoMD.

 

You forget that Japan, South Korea, ect have the world's largest WMD arsenal at thier disposal. Ours.

 

I agree. I think N. Korea is just talking tough to gain diplomatic points and concessions in any upcoming negotiations. We would not stand for any agressive moves by N.Korea.

But we'll see...Their leader does seem kinda crazy.

 

And what if America just goes for another preventive attack?

Isn't N.K. then "justified", as America was "justified" to invade Afghanistan, to invade and/or attack Japan?

 

As long as Japan remains "neutral", and doesn't take an active role in any conflict, N.K. has no justification to attack Japan, with possible exception of any US military targets that are being supported there. That said, launching a nuke into a Japanese harbor to take out an American battle group would have to be seen as a bit extreme, but then the French and Russians, and Chinese are in control of the UN, so I wouldn't expect much of a response from it (the UN). Even if N.K. nuked every major city in Japan I doubt the UN would do much. Perhaps after the UN inspectors were given a chance to go into N.K. and prove that the N.K. really were the ones that launched the nukes, and that they hadn't used their entire arsenal up in the attack, the UN might be moved to issue an official condemnation. I am sure that the N.K. are really scared of that!

 

I truly feel that the next nuclear weapon used in an attack (anywhere) would pretty much be the end of life as we know it here on the little blue ball.

 

Let's see the map of the region, next to N.K is China, hardly US best friend. The way I see it the "hey don't mess with me I'm a bad crazy motherf*****" attitude of Kim Jong-il, the nuclear program, the propaganda, etc, are China's moves to discredit the US. After American provocation (like bombing a certain embassy in Belgrade), the Chinese are taking steps to make the world believe America hasn't the balls to take on anything more than a joke like Iraq's military.
Well, it seems to work, a lot of people wonder why the US is feeling so talkative with N.K while acting so aggressively towards Iraq.
China is not crazy and won't start WW3, so as long as N.K remain China's dog, let it bark, it won't launch a nuke on Japan when there are hundreds of nukes in South Korea aimed at Pyongyang.

 

Axis of evil? No I prefer the axis of weasel. The axis of weasel consists of France, Russia and Germany…

 

If the North Koreans keep this attitude up, Japan might invade THEM as a precaution. There already have been discussions going on about this in the Japanese government.

But you're right, this is a far more dangerous situation than the one with Iraq. They now have nucleair capabilities, they just don't have the proper rockettechnology (yet).

 

To think that China is manipulating N. Korea to be hostile is plain stupid. I'm tired of being nice. You are aware that China stopped the oil flow to North Korea for three days a little while back as a way to say, "shape up and negotiate!" right? North Korea would wither without the energy from China and it was a clear message from China.

 

(He, He, the darkest of all wolves is back )

European-Radio-Propaganda

I agree with Belisarius. The guy who orders the next nuclear attack is going to be remembered as the biggest mother****er that ever has been. If there will remain someone to remember.

I don't have a clue about east asia and the pacific. But:

While Americans have fun with France, Russia and German bashing, they stubbornly ignore that other countries going to be their nemesis.

My thoughts: The Americans, if guided by rationality, will of course not dear to touch NK. I know that there are a lot of speculations about a possible war course out. They are scary. 1 million dead on the first day.

And I seriously doubt, that either in Japan or in South Korea would really want to attack NK. There would be no support from the people for any war like this, mainly because there would be giantic causalties. Afaik, in both countries a majority of people even oppose the war in Iraq. And I think they're highly critical of every American move.

But I am sure, Japanese and Koreans would sleep way better, if NK would not threaten them, but threaten to convert NY, LA, Houston and Boston into a wasteland. That would lessen the chance that a narcissistic goverment confuses itself with Shane and John Wayne.

[ April 28, 2003, 20:39: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

There you go. China pretty much controls N.K policy, if China says be mean, they're mean; if China says negotiate, they negotiate.
Or maybe N.K is willing to risk a war on Japan and S.K and face US intervention without any backup, that sounds plain stupid.

 

Strangley enough, I agree with BTA.

China does not "control" NK, but it is the country, which has the most means at his proposal to coerce NK.

On the other hand, NK is very important for China and can influence China. I am merely guessing now, but American forces in the near of the Chinese border should be, given the history of China, a giantic annoyance for them. I bet they don't want "white devils" in front of their gates. So, they somehow need NK to keep the Americans at bay.

I wonder, how the USA and China react, when Korea is ready for its reunion.

 

I have to say, I've noticed BTA batting 1.000 lately. Usually, he's not real talkative. I mean, he's always been more talkative than Shralp, but since Shralp posted 3 or 4 times a week at his peak, anything's an improvement.

NK is hurting right now. Like any good small communist country, they have depleted their resources. Military control costs resources; that's just the nature of it's existance. And NK is at that point.

The idea with negotiating with the US directly has a couple of benefits. Not the least of which is the US recognizing NK as a crediable threat in the internation community. They aren't sweating being recognized by Canada and Columbia, because they don't have planes and satellites and devil-dogs playing games like we do.

North Korea is every bit as bad as Iraq. I really don't know what to do about them. It's been a problem; and it's going to be a problem. The successful parasite does not kill it's host, and NK is not all that successful. Something has to give, at some point or another, either your people or your resources. NK is running out of resources, rapidly...

 

I don't think that China is any sort of a "puppet master" using NK as a front, but I do believe that if the NK do anything stupid, China will whip them back into shape. NK may talk tough about defying the US, and well they can, as if America tried to get a foothold in the Far East, China would flip -- aside from the fact that every time the US HAS tried to get a foothold in the Far East they've failed miserably!

 

Failed miserably ? How about Japan, did you forget they have militairy bases there ? And did you forget they also control the waters around Taiwan ? There are nucleair submarines patrolling constantly in that area, carriers are nearby, etc...

You call that a failure ?

 

It's obviously a failure. Those bases your're speaking of, became American after WW2. A war, if I remember correctly, the Japanese have lost. The Americans tried several times to strengthen their position in the far east. Every time they failed.

China used to be a colony, in the end, a colony of Japan. The Americans have no bases on mainland China. China under Mao became a fully indepent state. Guess, for MacArthur, that wasn't quite a success.

Korea. The Korean war ended undecided. Acutally in the same situation that the basis for the crisis today. Undecided. Keeping Korea together, under firm control of the Americans. Failure. All the more that South-Korea seems lately to get quite a will of its own.

Vietnam. No comment.

To say the truth bluntly, except in the Americas, the US-military history isn't quite impressive.

 

I've always maintained that the US could win a lot more wars if she were more ruthless, but given the fact that democracy and public opinion have such a large influence, they have to be humane! One of the prices for democracy, and IMHO, one worth paying.

 

None of the western powers - England, France or America - have had much success in trying to control the far east through military means. The best approach any of them can take is a hands-off one in these kinds of affairs. Yet the right in America is not that savvy. They believe that any of the eastern powers that don't demonstrate a desire to be like "us" needs some kind of rehabilatation.

Countries like Japan and Taiwan, who outwardly show a williness to want to Americanize in some fashion, are pointed to as success stories (even though their "Americanized" transformation is a superfical one). North Korea has not been much of a problem until Bush declared them in his Axis of Evil.

Here's the problem: NK has the capability to build nukes. But they don't have to be the ones who use them; they can sell them on the black market to anyone who is willing to pay them, as has been pointed out on this post, they are in a desperate economic situation.

Those on the right should think hard before deciding to do any saber-rattling, for you may be putting millions of lives at risk with your ideas of "Americanized" world cloning.

[ April 29, 2003, 07:29: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]