Backstab weapon of choice

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Here's a question for all of you thief fans out there. I've searched the board and it seems that many folks prefer using a dagger for backstabing rather than a short sword. My question is why?

If we ignore strength and magical bonuses and assume a x5 backstab multiplier, it seems to me that the backstabbing dagger can do from 5-20 in damage (12.5 average). The short sword looks to be able to do from 5-30 (17.5). Just looking at the numbers, I can't see why you would ever use a dagger if a comparable short sword is available. Since all of the cool daggers I've found so far are something less than +3, it seems that the +3 short sword of backstabing is the logical tool of choice.

What am I missing? Please educate me.

 

I think you are overlooking the fact of human stupidity

 

I like the dagger´s better speed factor. If you´re a pure thief a shortsword would be the better choice for it give 1d6+X damage compared to 1d4+X gamage of a dagger.

I always used daggers to complement my C`Fury main weapon, so I didn´t need to take care of damage at backstabbing when needed. I can switch over whenever I like.

 

Ragusa - I get the speed factor thing as far as melee is concerned, but does it make any difference in the actual backstab?

By the way, yes - I do have a plain vanilla thief going (and a monk and a sorcerer - can't decide what I like best <g> ) and it seems his best tactic is to backstab the crap out of someone then run away and shoot arrows over the heads of Minsc and Anomen and Jaheira. A sneaky little, barely armoured halfling going toe to toe? No thanks!

 

Not really. The backstabb makes it *sure* that you strike first and hard (due to the damage multiplier).

I found low initiative always then useful when my backstabbing failed Oh yes, and I used my boneblade +4 on enemies I couldn´t hurt with C´Fury (like liches ...) - I used them not only as backstabb but as back-up weapons too ...

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited April 18, 2001).]

 

But Ragusa, there are a couple of short swords that have a speed factor of 1 or even 0, so I prefer the short sword...

 

If u want a ULTIMATE back stabbing weapon, you need to look into the staff proficiency. The staff of striking has 1D6 + 9 damage and it count as a +3 weapon. its only disadvantage is charge limited, once the charge has run out the weapon is destroyed.

 

Why waste slots in lame weapons?

CF is the best backstabber there is! Up to 180 hit points! THAT will leave a mark on any beastie.
(for most of the game anyways)

 

I played an Evil Fighter/Thief one time through BG2 and his favorite backstabbing weapons were the +3 short sword of backstabbing and eventually the +4 Cutthroat sword. However he also used the daggers for the 'extra' gifts. Such as Mirror Image abilitiy, immunity to hold,etc. Some of those daggers are nice to have just because of their abilities. My Fighter/Thief had about 5 weapons of choice in his inventory at any given time...

Your math is right however, a short sword does more than a dagger, long swords more than short and so on.

 

Re: backstabbing with longer blades. I haven't found CFury yet. It is a nasty katana? I'll have to hunt that down.

I haven't played PnP for a *long* time, but it seemed to me that backstabs were limited to the daggers and short swords. So long swords (and katanas) can backstab now as well?

 

Cesestial Fury is located in the Temple District, and a thief can backstab with any weapon he can use (just not missiles).

 

I thought u could only backstab with daggerz and shortswords?

 

All right - the true reason for me using daggers for backstabbing is arrogance ... but it´s so satisfying to be able to say: "What? You weakling little kensai needed to use warblade on this lich? Bwahaha, I killed the wimp with my 1d4+4 boneblade dagger, harharhar ..."

Btw. for a usual thief I´d indeed suggest shortswords and longswords for this purpose

 

You can use the Celestial Fury as a backstabbing weapon, I often do and in my opinion is the best tool for the job "gamewise".

In keeping things sensible I personally think that B/S weapons should be restricted to daggers and shortswords only (preferably daggers only) as a longsword is too cumbersome. I'm reasonably sure that a longsword is regarded as a "slashing" weapon anyway. Let's face it, if you were really going to stab somebody I think most people would choose the dagger. Unfortunately the damage factor "ingame" dictates the use of a katana. Don't forget also that points attrbuted to a thiefs move silently and hide in shadows abilities affects his/her B/S success rate.

As a footnote: A katana in reality is a two handed sword.

 

Now it seems to me that daggers and short swords are better weapons for the small people. A dwarf or halfling would most likely have to use two hands on a long sword...if this was so daggers and short swords would be very valuable to a small thief.

 

From a roleplaying point of view you´re definitely right ... it would look strange IRL when a halfling (nonexistent ILR) would backstabb with a katana ...

 

At least backstabbing with a greatsword won't work... *mutters something about BG1, +3 sword of berserking and Montaron*

 

Weapons that cannot be used for backstabbing:
Bastard Swords, 2 handed swords, Maces, Warhammers, Flails, Quarterstaffs and if I remember correctly, Celestial Fury is the only katana that can be used to backstab. Malakar +2 and the others are not suitable.
Also, backstabbing cannot be done with ranged weapons, although it is possible in 3rd edition rules.

 

Yes Shura, there´s one thing I always regretted when playíng BG-2 is that you can´t "backslap" with a mace, warhammer or an club, really sily for for an evil thug that would be a nice alternative to pickpocketing

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited April 21, 2001).]

 

Katana's are two-handed? I thought they could be used either with one or two hands. The katana and wak-sachi (sorry about the terrible spelling there) were the paired swords of samurai. I may be wrong, but didn't they wield one in each hand?