Bard spell rankings

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Bards are one class that I've not used a whole lot, and when I have used them, I feel that I've not been very effective with them.

So, here's your chance to rank the best spells for a Bard to take at leveling up. I'd like to see two lists - one for a Bard taking only 11 levels, and one for a more dedicated bard (say 20 levels or so).

Also, would your choice of any multiclasses or mix-ins, or even race, affect which spells you would take?

 

A bard taking 11 lvls would be good to mix with sorcerer (for obvious reasons), cleric or druid. Taking sorcerer makes him more of a caster and taking cleric or druid makes him useful as an allrounder. Usually you should take all other lvls as the other class, but taking one (maybe the last) lvl as fighter-class type may be useful.
Which spells to use depends on play-style but there are some spells that are worse than others. I also usually have a lot of other spellcasters so the bard only takes one or 2 good spells/lvl and the rest are "good to have but not so useful spells" to free spell slots for the others.
The spells to use would be:

lvl1 (4 spells):
Chromatic Orb (super-useful at higher lvls)
and any 3 of these (depending on the rest of the party):

Charm Person (useful in hof with bard/sorc)
Cure Light Wounds (to cast off the last few spells before rest)
Identify (if noone else covers that)
Grease (useful in combination with similar spells)Mage Armor (very useful buff but usually covered by my decoy and sorc)
Protection from Evil (for high-lvl summons)

lvl2 (4 spells):
Mirror Image (Illusion)

And any of these:
Bull's Strength (for fighter bards)
Cat's Grace (for high-ac and ranged chars)
Cure Moderate Wounds (same as all cure-spells for bards)
Hold Person
Invisibility

these can be useful:
Blur
Dire Charm
Eagle's Splendor
Luck
Power Word: Sleep
See Invisibility
Silence
Vocalize

lvl3 (4 spells):
Confusion
Emotion: Hope (can be great)
Emotion: Despair (same as above)

and any of:
Cure Serious Wounds
Dispel Magic
Ghost Armor (for high-ac)
Haste (usually covered by my wiz until my sorc gets mass haste)
Invisibility Sphere (good for forced battles to give a chance to regroup)
Magic Circle Against Evil (for summon-user)
Slow (good debuffer)

lvl4 (3 spells):
Dominate Person
and 2 of:
Cure Critical Wounds
Improved Invisibility (very good buff. so good that it could almost be considered cheating even in patched game, therefore I seldom use it))
Spirit Armor (for high-AC decoys)

For higher lvld clerics you can take all useful spells since they don't have many to choose from (at lvl 30 you have all but one lvl 5 and 6 spells and all lvl 7 and above spells. Don't choose summon monster 5/6 and you'll be fine!

 

Bards are mainly bards, they can help a lot with their singing which is often underrated. Spells are mainly for supporting, your sorcerers/mages/clerics are better at spellcasting anyway, a level 9 bard can cast "confusion", but a level 9 mage can cast "chaos" which is much harder to save against (6 DC difference).

Which spells to take depends a lot on the party composition, a party with 5 clerics requires taking other bard spells than a party with 5 mages or 5 sorcerers or a solo game.
Some spells are only useful early on, some are useful later. It also depends which tactic you prefer to play.

In a normal game with a balanced party with cleric and mage I'd keep the bard pure since the higher level spells bards get after level 11 help more than the low-level spells you would get for 5-6 cleric or sorc levels.
I'd take "GSF enchantment" and pump up charisma.


I personally took all the "cure wounds" spells. They might be useless from the powergaming perspective if you have a cleric but I like them a lot. Bards are the real spontaneous healers, you don't have to choose a spell to change first.
It's also an outside combat spell.
Because of "lingering song" you loose 3 rounds where an useful bard song could be in effect with each spell cast in combat once you gained a few levels.

A ranking: (First mentioned spells are the most useful ones)

Level 1:
- Cure light wounds
- Charm person

The rest depends on your playing style. Sleep, summon monster 1, minor mirror image or protection from evil get obsolete later (PfE 10'), identify or mage armor are very useful but more than 1 caster doesn't need them (my mage handled them in my game.)

Level2:
- Eagle's Splendor or Cat's Grace. I'd take one and give the other one to the mage or sorc. Bull's strength is even more useful but your cleric will soon be able to cast 6 of them.
My bard didn't have many level2 spells left after casting this buff.
- mirror image is very powerful, but my bard hardly ever cast it since background singers aren't attacked often and can even flee without reducing their usefulness
- the rest doesn't really matter. "invisibility" or "blur" look the most useful to me.

level3:
- Emotion Hope. The level 4 mage or sorcerer spells are too powerful to bother them with this very useful spell.
The other emotion spells don't seem to be worth it. Blink or SM 3 don't seem worth it either.
Magic Circle Against Evil and haste are very useful, but only if no one else handles them.
The rest depends on your playing style.

level4:
- Improved Invisibility (very powerful)
- Dominate Person. Works against nearly all monsters, not only persons. Makes hold monster useless.
- Cure critical wounds
- neutralize poison

level5:
- healing circle
- shadow conjuration (gets better with levels)
I didn't bother with the rest.

level6:
- Shades (Summons which get better with levels)
- summon stalker (long lasting summon)
- mass haste (I took it although my sorc already had it. This spell is just fantastic.)

 

Here are some suggestions for a high-level Bard in HoF. I haven't actually played a bard, so these are based on my Sorc rankings. Most of the buffs can be cast by any spellcasting class, so don't feel that the Bard has to take them all.

Keep in mind that a high-level bard is a poor idea, because he'll be a very inferior Sorc with a little bit more HP and BAB.

1: Charm Person, Chromatic Orb, Identify (optional), Mage Armor (if making high AC tank)
2: !!!Mirror Image!!!, Bull's Strength and/or Cat's Grace and/or Eagle's Splendor and/or Luck (some of these will be covered by other characters), Dire Charm, Invisibility
3: Dispel Magic, Emotion: Despair, Emotion: Hope, Ghost Armor (for tank), Haste (sometimes Mass Haste is overkill), Invisibility Sphere, Slow
4: Dominate Person, Spirit Armor (for tank)
5: Shadow Conjuration (HOF only)
6: Mass Haste!!!, Shades
7: worthless
8: Mass Dominate, Wail of the Banshee. Both awesome. Too bad you don't get them until XL 26; the Sorc gets them at XL18.

 

Most of bard spells are weak, and they do not gain spell levels fast, and they can not cast them a lot in a day...so bards suck hard IMHO in 3e, but for roleplaying and their special songs, they are worth a try once in a while. If you already have main casters, that is!

 

Your conclusion is wrong.
Bards might suck as spellcasters, but that doesn't mean that bards suck.
Bards are bards. You are underestimating the power of their songs.
With 5 other party members at level 1 a bard helps far more in combat than another fighter.
At higher levels the singing bonusses get even higher.
Because of lingering song a high level bard can have 3 songs in effect at once for all party members, the 1st, 5th and 11th level song yield combined:

+1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 luck (extremely useful), +2 AC, 2 damage reduction, regenerate 3 HP/round, and +4 all saving throws.

You can multiply the bonusses with 5-11 and apply to one single party member to see the power behind this since this applies to each of the 6 party members and summons.

The Siren's Yearning is even more useful and the level 3 song is invaluable when party members run away in fear.

The level 5 song even helps outside battle and with buffing or summoning spells you can help to prepare your party for battle and there are useful bard-only items in the game.

Choosing a bard as 6th character for a balanced 5 character party without bard will make your party stronger, not weaker.

 

I know what you mean. Really. But a bard is weak when alone as he does not have a pure, useful ability. He can never face any foe toe to toe, he can neither fight as efficiently as a fighter or barbarian, or he can not rain destruction like a mage, nor he can heal all with a touch like a cleric. He is excellent support character but that is it. And this bugs me for some reason.

Sorry if I give you trouble, kmonster, I respect your vast experience with IWD games, but this is just my personal preference.

PS:My friend had a bard character as well, and he was the one who always got killed. My friend forgot how many times he had to raise his bard. Ofcourse, he sucked at playing, could reach Severed Hand only with my help, and got stucked there pretty badly! Heh.

 

Sorry for calling your conclusion wrong, "bards suck hard" was your personal opinion. Useful characters don't have to be enjoyable characters.

Bard is actually one of the strongest solo classes.
In 1:1 combat he's better than a fighter and most other classes because of his spells and soloing the game with a bard is surely easier than with most other pure classes, both in normal and HoF mode.
In a solo game the songs get less useful, but the bard spells actually get more useful.
In a party game it's not a big advantadge that a bard can cast healing spells while the sorc can't since you have a cleric, and that the bard can cast arcane spells like "improved invisibility" or "emotion hope" unlike the cleric is only very important if you don't have an arcane caster around.

But I was talking about the usefulness in a balanced party going through normal mode, like 2 fighters, 1 rogue, 1 cleric and 1 sorc. No other 6th character will help more getting through the game than a bard IMHO.

Sometimes I think bards would be liked more if they weren't able to cast spells or attack at all.
So bards would be considerd as what they are, "powerful singers" and not as "weaker spellcasters than sorcerers" or "weaker fighters than fighters" and no one would bother about "kills worth 0 percent of the party experience" in the statistics.


PS: My bard had 18 dex and con, just like my sorceress and rogue3/wizard. Therefore the sorceress had 20 percent less HP and was therefore far more vulnerable.
Your friend must have either crippled his bard by choosing an ECL race or bad stats or abused him as meat shield. (or he just had very bad luck ... )
You made me curious how he managed to get stuck badly in the Severed Hand. The fights there aren't as hard as the previous ones AFAIR.

 

Mirror Image, Identify, and Eagle's Splendour are the most useful ones for me. The latter two can save you loads of cash at the start of the game and ES is always useful to cast on your Paladin to make him almost invulnerable to anything that requires a saving throw.

 

Well my friend really sucks at playing IWD2. He was able to reach IWD2 as I helped him through the all chapters. Though he is so stubborn he gave me lots of headache!

Me:Look dude, read the floating text above his head, the Lich is is casting 'Wail of the Banshee!' Retreat! Scram! Run away! FAST!

My friend:No way, I will kill it! Har har!

(Lich wails and takes out 5 of the party instantly, only one fighter survives with sheer luck. )

My friend:WHOA! What the heck!

Me:See, I told you!

My friend:I will reload....

Me:You had better!

And then I could not help him in Severed Hand with my valuable advices and so he could not understand how to advance the plot, do the quests, and besides, he loved charging Slayer Knights of Xvim a lot... his party did not survive long and perished all together on the bloody floors of Severed Hand, last I heard.

 

I'm considering trying a Paladin/Bard - Weimer's EoU mod has a component allowing the removal of alignment restrictions. Normally, I wouldn't use that component, but I think I'll try something different.

Why not a lawful good bard? (David, the Second King of Israel, is a good example - he was both a "holy warrior" so to speak, and a poet).

That would also allow Aasimar as a viable class for the Wis and Cha bonuses. Anyone tried this before? This would be a major "support" style character providing bonuses for the rest of the team.

 

I also considered a paladin/bard. Getting the saving throw bonusses for high cha, the paladin stat raises and the immunity to fear while being able to sing the anti-fear song.
But I'm not sure if those benefits outweight the casting levels you loose.

After starting with 5 bard levels, I'd take 2 paladin levels and only bard levels afterwards. Wisdom is useless (I wouldn't take more than 5 points), unless you play without cleric the first really useful paladin spell requires 15 paladin levels and the will saves will become perfect even with 5 wis.