BBC's disgrace

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During the recent students' demonstrations in London a disabled protester was thrown out of his wheelchair by the police and dragged across the street. While policemen's behaviour is disgusting, what realy pissed me off is this interview. Just listen to what this moron, who calls himself journalist, asks the protester.

 

Already had an argument over this on Facebook. Where a friends opinion was pretty much that he deserved it.

A guy that can't push himself in his own wheelchair is pulled out of the crowd and dragged face down over the road... twice in 45 minutes with the same police officer involved in both incidents?

Disgusting.

 

What's with the dragging anyway? He had a perfectly good wheelchair. One officer could have easily wheeled him to the side of the road. Instead, 3 or 4 officers drag him? Do they get extra points for dramatics?

 

To credit the student, he handled the inane & insulting questioning with far more poise and intelligence than his questioner. I had thought, previously, that it was a bit suspicious that the media (most of whom got their University education for absolutely nothing) seemed to have agreed that the students were universally wrong in their protestations. After all, minor infractions by protestors were being focussed on by the press far more than the people hospitalised by "over-zealous" policing. It seems that everyone has already decided who the bogeymen are, and no questions are to be asked of anyone acting against them. Worrying.

 

Ridiculous interview, isn't it. The "journalist" should be ashamed, as should the police who pretty much assaulted the poor guy.

McIntyre seems to get a little riled up answering the same questions, but all credit to him, he doesn't go on the attack as most people probably would.

The incident was caught on camera and if you think this interview is bad, I suggest you go check out the footage on Facebook.. Disgraceful.

 

What a load of rubbish.

you people do realise that this was the worst violence in the capital in years right? these were no peaceful protests this was a riot, the attack on prince charles's convoy was a perfect example.

the Idea that someone in a wheel chair cannot be threatening is rediculous, and people need to drop this idea that disabled people are incapable of doing anything wrong, tell me this, if he was perfectly innocent of any wrong doing, why did multiple officers feel the need to remove him from the area... he was 'attacked by police' sure he was... after what? throwing a bottle maybe?
watching the video the police actually seem to be quite gentle, they havent forced his face to the floor, theyre not kneeling on his back, those are mothods of dealing with dangerous people, once again another witch hunt of the police for doing their job.

 

I think there are a lot of people that behaved disgustingly durring the riots; police and rioters alike. I do, however, think it unlikely that this individual deserved even one dragging out of his wheelchair, much less twice in 45 minutes. I also find it hard to believe that an individual with cerebral palsy confined to a wheelchair that he couldn't even move himself, could constitute an imminent threat to anyone without a great deal of technological assistance. I doubt he could throw a bottle with enough force to genuinely injure one unaware pedestrian in a crowd of them, much less police in riot gear.

This does sound to me like assault, and possibly as a hate-crime as well.

 

Shoshino, the majority of the protests were peaceful, the violence was a vocal minority. Labelling the whole thing as a riot is as sensible as labelling all fotball matches as riots.

 

I didn't really have too much of a problem with the questions - as elementary as they were. I just thought they were the normal non-insightful questions that you see with almost any interview. And I also thought that the protester handled the questions very well, so I didn't have too much problem with the interview itself.

I have a problem with the incident. As NOG points out, if the guy lacks the strength to push his own wheelchair, then clearly he isn't much of a threat to anyone. I agree - it doesn't appear he has the strength or coordination necessary to throw an object with any force or accuracy.

 

Maybe the police thought they were going to catch something. Pretty much the same was a lot of them worrying about catching things like 'the Gay' and 'criminals'

 

I'd like to see a fotball game someday!

However, in all seriousness, it is a well known fact on these boards that I hate protestors with a passion and usually think that they deserve whatever happens to them, up to and including getting their sanctimonious, arrogant heads blown off. But that's for when they are violent or otherwise obstructing the lives of decent people with real jobs. In this case, even I side against the officers involved. I can see wheeling this douche out of the way and maybe somehow temporarily disabling his wheelchair so he couldn't come back and cause more trouble, but dragging him out of the wheelchair seems barbaric, vicious, and unnecessary. I wonder what they were thinking?

 

Yeah, unless that guy in the chair has a weapon or objects to throw, or when he is really good at spitting, he has a danger radius of about five feet, and he is slow and rather immobile. There were other, less violent ways he could have used easily without exposing himself to any unacceptable risk*; the cop used excessive force.

The idea that that guy in the wheelchair was a potential danger is silly.

By that standard, Soshino is a potential danger as well. Always. So am I, and so is everyone here. Does that justify the police using force on us if they interact with us in a demonstration, even though it is conceivable that we all certainly could do something dangerous the next second? By that standard, the police could use overwhelming force on us and anybody by default. No one in his right mind can seriously suggest that.

Spoiler

* cops are trained for and paid for exposing themselves to acceptable risks, that's part of their mission. They are not about self preservation over the mission.

 

really? people with cerebral palsy can be very violent and very unpredicatable.
But other than that, as I stated earlier, thie is actually a very gentle removal from the scene.

rubbish, look at it this way, the police have a full scale riot on their hand, so... lets waste time and effort taking down the guy in a wheelchair.

no they werent, this was disgusting behaviour from people who want other people to pay their way, my favourite video was where youve got a guy on camera shouting "this is a peaceful protest, this is a peaceful protest, this is a peaceful protest" and in the background there's a guy lamping a police officer.

that is a massive assumption, cerebral palsy doesnt prevent someone from pushing their own wheelchair.

the whole "dragging" looks much to me like how an officer or fireman removes a victim from the scent of an incident, like I said earlier, they arent forcing his head down, holding him to the floor or pinning him down, they are actually quite gently and professionally taking him away from the incident.

rubbish.

yep, and if your tresspassing on a crime scene even more so, if you are at the scene of a riot you can be arrested even if you have taken no violent action yourself for tresspassing on a crime scene.

where did this come from? british police or anyone holding a SIC are trained to preserve their own lives first and take risks second.

lets put it in another prespective, I work in a club as security, 20 people could kick off, but its my 'mission' to preserve safety in the club and the property of the club... so you think im supposed to just wade in? because thats my job? no, I am trained to think of my own safety first before taking any other action, because, if I get hurt in the course of my duty, I can sue the club for not ensuring my safety as I persue my job.

think about this situation for a second, the police are dealing with a riot... why would several hightly trained and accomplished (in the UK you have to do 2 years before youre allowed to take action for yourself) officers maliciously attack a perfectly harmless wheelchair bound person... it doesnt make any sense.

 

Nonsense. CP does not make someone violent or unpredictable. The chances of being more violent are the same as anybody else. Your prejudice that someone with CP should be presumed to be violent and unpredictable is simply ridiculous.

No, that is a statement from Jamie McIntyre. His Brother is the one that pushes him most days.

Yup... gently pulling a wheelchair out of a crowd, tipping him out then dragging him along... Uneccessarily.

So you condone someone who cannot throw objects, can barely be heard over the crowd unable to move themselves to be thrown out of their wheelchair twice for simply expressing a political view?

You're right, it doesn't make any sense, and that's what makes it worse. Earlier on in the demonstrations there were officers using batons when unecessary so it does not ring false to me that an officer or a particular group would decide to make an example of a select few to deter the others. The fact that the same police officer was involved in both incidents involving Jamie either shows an example of easy pickings or hatred.

 

it can, can make someone unpredicatable and violent. they Idea that they are sweent and innocent and incapable of vilence are what are nonsense.

what is the point of this statement?

as a trained ans experienced professional in legal and proportional restraint... that was pretty damn gentle.

who cant throw objects?

I can be barely heared over a crowd

who can barely move themselves?

hang on... are you expressing an idea that someone with cerebral palsy is some how retarded to the point of being incapable of simple actions?

I havent seen anyone being thrown out of a wheel chair.

when was the use of a baton unnecessary? the police can use a baton against anyone who does not comply - if an officer orders someone to lay on the floor and they do not comply he can strike them in a green area with his baton, or CS them. this situation is once again the problem that the public do not understand the role of the police and think that they can do what the hell they like, and destroy as much public property as the like with absolutely no repercussions, and then when they police do their jobs they can ***** and moan that theyve been hard done by...

no, that shows being in the same place at the same time. once again, I work door security, if a black man is ejected by me, and then returns 10 mins later and is once again ejected by me, does that make me racist?

 

CP can make people violent and unpredictable. Because it's a prolongues crappy position to be in. And people in crappy positions for a long time are more likely to be violent and unpredictable. They're also more likely to have the patience of a saint. Basically, they're just less likely to be ordinary, run-of-the-mill people.

Shoshino, Jamie McIntyre described himself as unable to move himself in his wheelchair. If you think he's lying, just say so. Otherwise, accept his statement as a statement of fact.

As for being dragged out of his wheelchair, there was a simpler, safer, easier, and more obvious solution if he were really in the way somehow. Dragging him out of his wheelchair was, if nothing else, needlessly humiliating. It's about on par with kicking a man's cane out from under him, or ripping off a prosthetic leg. It wasn't necessary.

As for risk, police are trained to take acceptable risks. They're also trained to assess risks and decide if they're acceptable or not. Wading, solo, into a 20-man-brawl is not an acceptable risk.

So, all in all Shoshino, what do you think this guy was doing to deserve this treatment? Was just being there enough? Do the police have the right to forcibly disable and humiliate anyone just standing around in such a crowd? If so, why didn't they treat any of the others similarly? Or do you think he presented some threat (if so, please specify), or was somehow leading the unrest?

Basically, what I'm saying is that treatment like that needs to be justified. There are certainly things that could justify that treatment, and as you have said, it's far less abusive than many other ways police legitimately treat suspects. Those treatments are justified, though, or they are abuse. What do you think justifies this?

 

It was just pointed out to me that we don't really know what this guy did to result in this situation. I don't believe that all cops are vicious bullies and so if I am asked to give the benefit of the doubt to either a cop or a protestor, I have to go with the cop, even if the protestor is in a wheelchair. I'd like to hear the cop's side of the story and judge it's believability before making final judgement

 

I just found I wanted to rep you NOG, but I couldn't. That part about the acceptable risks police takes and has to take was so reasonable ...

 

One thing that has struck me after every single protest is how if the police do not beat up a handicapped guy it is some thirteen year old little girl or someone else who is not likely to pose much of a threat. Now I am sure the media only reports those cases but even so the police seems to act like rational people, big freaking hooligan with crazy eyes and a lead pipe pissed you off, smack a 14 year old girl several times with the baton it is much safer. Why go after the people actually rioting and being a danger, that would be dangerous god forbid!

When it comes to crime both in preventing and catching criminals I have a fair amount of respect for the police but they universally seem to suck at protests and crowd control. When I go to football games there are three groups of lunatics I am afraid to run into, the hooligans of my team, the hooligans of the opposing team and the police who tend to be the most violent and erratic of the three groups.

 

Millions of planes land safely everyday but you never hear about it. You do, however, hear about the ones that crash. Same thing