1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Brazilian shot in London

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Cúchulainn, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. Cúchulainn Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    1
    Remove all ads!
    It would appear that this Brazilian electrician was not as suspicious as previously thought:

    Looks like Jean Charles de Menezes was not even aware of what was going on.

    If the leaked report is true, this is a major blow to the British police force's credibility
     
    Cúchulainn, Aug 17, 2005
    #1
  2. Carcaroth

    Carcaroth I call on the priests, saints and dancin' girls ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    5
    I'm a little dubious about this report. With so many witnesses I would have thought any lie about a "bulky jacket" would have been pounced on immediately by the press.

    Still, if it is backed by CCTV footage (and it should be given LUL's propensity for coverage - especially around the gatelines as it is used for prosecuting fare-dodgers) then it raises some major questions and a full public enquiry should be held.
     
    Carcaroth, Aug 17, 2005
    #2

  3. Son of Bhaal Gems: 17/31
    Latest gem: Star Diopside

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    2
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4157892.stm

    It leaves me with no true belief of what actually occured that morning and suggests some conspiracy going on due to the the lack of truth initially stated after the event.
     
    Son of Bhaal, Aug 17, 2005
    #3
  4. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,776
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    There was also a statement by the first police officer there. It appears he had subdued the individual and had forced him back into the seat when the first shot was fired.

    Fear is a powerful motivator.
     
    T2Bruno, Aug 17, 2005
    #4

  5. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    1
    Who knows; the point is that the police shot an innocent man without even questioning him first. Speaks that they weren't able to handle panic and shouldn't been given weapons in the first place. Situations like this usually weed out bad indivituals more surely than any preliminary exam.

    Arrest, charge of first degree murder, and off to jail for life.
     
    Wordplay, Aug 26, 2005
    #5
  6. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, surely it wouldn't be first degree murder. That would require pre-meditation. I mean, the guy that shot him was in all likelihood ordered to follow this suspicious character, and assumed he was going to blow up the bus. Don't get me wrong the guy(s) that shot this poor man definitely acted irresponsibly, and jail may be in order for them (I'd have to get all the facts of the incident first, because this story conflicts with earlier reports) but in the U.S. at least such an action would NEVER get them charged with first degree murder, because they thought they were doing their jobs. Manslaughter? Probably, but not murder, and definitely not 1st degree.
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Aug 26, 2005
    #6

  7. Cúchulainn Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    1
    If he was really considered such a danger, why wait until he is in a busy tube station to shoot him?

    Also consider that the police lied in their report.
     
    Cúchulainn, Aug 26, 2005
    #7

  8. Rallymama Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    4,329
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    11
    That's the real crime, Cuchulainn, the falsified report and attempt at covering the incident up. What the officers did was tragic, and while it may have been avoidable (if it was, they should lose their badges IMO) there is nothing but malice aforethought in the actions of those who changed the incident reports.
     
    Rallymama, Aug 26, 2005
    #8

  9. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    1
    @ Cúchulainn

    The police do not lie; they simply twist the events to a bit more favourable by relating to matters like "he might had been a bombman", or "we have to shoot to save lives." Personally, I think that the policemen read the news, saw that man, and put a number of bullets into his head in panic. Then it was a matter of their ups to sort this out by their best skill and this means explaining matters in favourable light (doh).

    And yet it changes nothing: they shot an innocent, they did not have strong enough evidence to do so, and they acted hastily at the cost of someone's life. Okay, maybe this isn't a 1st degree murder, they did not plan for it, but it's sure as hell that it is badges off and 10-20 years in jail. Plus, like with everyone else, a lifetime mark in registry to prevent them from getting a risky job.
     
    Wordplay, Aug 26, 2005
    #9
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    Now that I can agree with. :thumb:
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Aug 26, 2005
    #10
  11. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    I'm getting bored of all this.
    Want to find someone to blame? Blame the damn terrorists who made actions like this necessary and not the police who are doing their best to protect peoples lifes.
     
    Barmy Army, Aug 26, 2005
    #11
  12. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,653
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    570
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG] This is a rational discussion, so anyone can take anyone's side provided they can defend it well enough. So there's no need for such outbursts. Every action by the police in any country is certainly a matter of public interest and open to scrutiny and debate. Terrorists are to blame by default, but it wasn't the terrorists who shot this man. If the police had shot someone close to you, I'm sure you wouldn't just blame the terrorists for it, but first and foremost the people who actually pulled the trigger.
     
    Taluntain, Aug 26, 2005
    #12

  13. Mithrantir Gems: 15/31
    Latest gem: Waterstar

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    0
    I really am wondering if terrorists are the only ones to be blamed for the current situation.
    The Western world is totally innocent for the fact that someone decides to throw his life away in order to deliver a message?
    I agree it is the wrong way to deliver this message.
    But i don't think that we (as West) had nothing to do in this decision.
     
    Mithrantir, Aug 31, 2005
    #13

  14. Pac man Gems: 25/31
    Latest gem: Moonbar

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,119
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sure, blame the west for their insanity.
     
    Pac man, Sep 4, 2005
    #14
  15. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    It's still true though, Tal...
     
    Barmy Army, Sep 4, 2005
    #15

  16. Svyatoslav Gems: 12/31
    Latest gem: Moonstone

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    0
    Was he an ilegal, or not, after all?
     
    Svyatoslav, Sep 5, 2005
    #16
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.