Bugs

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Guys, do you like Black Isle bugs?
I started to get sick of those. Why the hell every single RPG under their mark has to be bugged? So, you purchase from a store a great game everyone is talking about. And then a cold shower - it's bugs are so irritating that you have only two choices:
1. Uninstall the game and never again buy anything related to BI or
2. Pray that you can find a patch on the net that fixes major bugs at least.

In fact, when games are released you are supposed to test them, inform BI of bugs and then wait for fixes - check their site on and on for patches instead for fan's stuff related to your favorite masterpiece. I'm asking a simple question: what are thanks to testers in credits for? Maybe testers' job is not bug detection, I don't know. But the whole thing is just a brilliant customer support plan. Who's idea was it in a first place? We all know who is Comte Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade (marquis). But I didn't know that he is BI CEO!

And then if the game is trully great but sells poorly because a few people want to risk with it's bugs, they'll kick designers outta job instead of those ones who ordered to start selling unfinished game. Pathetic. Always blame artists. Managers are saints.

But don't get me wrong. I'm not accusing BI only. Seems that "bug included here" thing became global happening. I simply can't remember what was the last game that came bugless in stores. And I'm pissed!

My last note for BI if there's anyone who works for it and reads this:
OK, it's deadline. The game is not finished. So what, we'll all understand that you are fixing it's bugs a month or two more. Just don't start selling yet! Why must I feel as I'm deceived every time. And if "bugs included in this game too" thing happens with NWN - no more Black Isle stuff on my PC!


[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited April 15, 2001).]

 

For the record: I hate bugs, too, and I create buggy software for a living...

The presence of software bugs is indeed a global phenomenon, and does not just involve BIS games. All software of noticeable size is buggy. Uninstalling BIS products won't really get you anywhere; to achieve a bug-free and pure environment, you need to trash your OS as well.

The dumbest statement ever from a programmer would be "Whew! I think that was the last bug!" (Which also happens to be my fav quote ). There is no such thing as "the last bug", and considering the size of a game such as BG2, the testers can test their asses off and not even be close to finding every bug. The programmers need feedback from the end users in order to detect them all. It's not just a way to do business; it's the *only* way to do business. Here, I assume that the software company in question actually plan to FIX the bugs as they are reported...

Releasing a product with critical bugs is obviously inexcusable, but I can't say I've ever encountered one in a BIS game...

A final note; I want bug-free software, but I'll be damned if I'm going to implement it...

 

I think Black Isle has done a pretty darn good job of presenting a product with very few bugs. I've never experienced a bug that ruined a game for me. In fact, the only buggy thing that happened to me was my familiar disapearing, and I say good ridence Finding a non buggy game is an impossibility now adays, so if that's what you're expecting from something like NWN, I'd sugges not even buying the game for fear you'd be terribly disapointed. But, while we are gripping at Black Isle and Interplay, thier tech support to solve buggy issues is absolutely terrible. I can understand a product with a few bugs, but have a decent tech support staff around to field the calls from frustrated gamers.

 

Also most of the game-stopping "bugs" that I've encountered or read about aren't really the fault of the game but, arise from certain hardware or driver problems. That's why whenever someone has a problem with a game the first thing someone tells them is make sure you've got the latest drivers for video, sound, direct-x or whatever.

Sure it'd be nice if the game worked on EVERY system and combination of drivers that are out there. But there's so many different PC configurations that it's impossible. PC's are not like the N64 or PS&PS2 where everyone has the exact same box and same controllers.

 

The only BI game I couldn't complete without a patch was Fallout 2. Ok, torment had some slowdown at times, but it didn't crash every 10 minutes.

But games crashing is not a new phenomena. Games has been crashing all the time games has been around. Maybe we are just being to spoiled, because we now have the ability to download a patch through the internet.

This being said, there are some horrondous examples out there like Daggerfall and Fallout 2.

 

Actually my exp with Fallout 2 was different: I was able to complete it without the patch just fine. I loved that game and beat it five or six times.
Then, when I installed the patch, it started to crash. The first time it did in Frisco when I fought Lo Pan, so I had to reload and skip that quest, and after that it permanently screwed up at the second level of Enclave.

About Daggerfall: OH MY GOD!!!!!!!

I cannot imagine ANYTHING more buggy and awful than that. Whew... Still shaking

 

Did U ever played Land of Lore 3? There was a nice bug with the elevator. It will just drop U down ...and U can stay there till the end of the days. For me it was the bugiest game ever to play.

 

Lets think about this bug issue for a moment. Most people do have the internet and I'm sure software developers are aware of this. If a game is playable then it is put on the market, bugs are tolerated and patches are produced. It only makes business sense to get games onto the market as soon as possible.
I remember playing Doom and Bard's Tale and I didn't even know what a patch was, now they are readily available. Some of the bugs people experience may be hardware issues as well. There are many different systems out there, and in the real world, not all hardware is even compatible with other hardware, not to mention software. I think I have yet to play a game that I couldn't complete without a patch, and my computer is a piece of crap. Of course I don't really play alot of games, but Black Isle has been good so far.

*Whoops sorry Bowie, I should read more carefully, I'm just repeating your words *

[This message has been edited by Lord Moeken (edited April 18, 2001).]

 

LOL! Modjahed, that was funny. I never played Daggerfall, but I will be sure to be cautious the next time I go to the computer store.

I think the most bug friendly game ever was Ultima 8: Pagan. You could do almost anything in that game, exploit or not, and there would be no retarded conseqences that would impend your progress. I remember being able to prevent Baron, the townmage, from blowing me up when I attacked civilians with a combination of invisibility, demon summons, and explosives (that kept him occupied for eternity). I forgot, but I was able to kill pretty much everybody but the Queen, having figured out how to escape her wrathful lightning bolt. RPG games were made to test your limits!!

I don't think I've died so often in any other game as I did in Pagan! But back then, I was patient!

OH yes, I almost forgot!

I HATE BUGS TOO!!!!!
die bug, die!

[This message has been edited by KangaxxJR (edited September 22, 2001).]

 

on the subject of the non bug finding playtesters I never checked but if you count the number of playtesters there are what maybe 20 of them. Figuer each of them does 40 Hr weeks in a month that translates to what 800 man hr in a month. Now if you consider there are probably in the first month of sails their are probably more that 800 people how play the game for more that 1 hr in the first week. By the time you get to the end of the first the gamers have probably played over 2000 Hr. of the game. So in most casses the playtesters will kill all of the major bugs but they simpally dont have enough time to cach all of the bugs. Nor can those 20 people manage to do major testing of the game on all of the platform the game will be played.
So give them a brake It would be imposable to cach all of the bugs.

Btw about the most anoying bug I found was BG save game crash.

 

April 14th... wow! Geez, I wonder... The worst bug I ever had was when I couldn't talk to the Mother Patron and whats-her-name properly.

 

The only bugs I ever get are encountered while trying to install old software on windows ME, there is so much tweaking to be done, it is almost not worth it sometimes...

 

The worst bug I encountered was in ToB, when Diaytha failed to show up after I killed Ogremoch. All her pals showed up, but no Diaytha. Regardless, I still managed to get past this without an outside utility (by using console to load next area). I have not downloaded a patch for either SoA or ToB and I managed to finish both games. Other than the Diaytha bug I've had no real complaints about the game working.

 

"Mother Patron?!?!" Lol Shadow_Goddess it's Matron Mother and Phaere. Geez

 

Ah, me likes disappearing Scar. But check this out: http://www.blizzard.com/support/information/d2xpatch.shtml

Nice bugfixing list for a 1.09 patch! Black Isle are not alone...

 

I'm gonna make sure that you guys don't forget something that Grovflab and Modjahed posted in April and to which I utterly agree:
DAGGERFALL WAS/IS THE UNDISPUTED KING OF BUGS, at least in Rpg games.

How do you like this?
- You are trying to escape a Daedra (that's a Daggerfall demon, very nasty) in a dark, totally light-ridden, HUGE dungeon and during your evasive maneuvres you get stuck between the door and the door frame! Then, whilst your saying "What the fuck?!!", you get ripped appart by the beforemenitoned Daedra.
- Then, after you were forced to quit the game, you try to reload. But then, the game suddenly crashes and you see a message saying - save game corrupt!
- OR, after you've spent hours trying to kill that bad Mr. Crazed Wizard or something else, when you finally succeed, the game crashes again and the message now says: error # 07 or something similar...

But the best thing is, after all those annoying bugs, you still think that the game is good

 

Well, I hate bugs pretty damn much.
But in the Black Isle games I've played, there hasn't been that many bugs...
It hasn't bothered me all to much.

 

yeah elendil daggerfall is still one of my alltime favourite games regardless of the bugs.

Still, if you downloaded all the available patches, it wasn't too bad.