Bush, Blair Excommunicated?

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http://www.arabia.com/newsfeed/article/english/0,14183,386492,00.html Interesting if the report is true. Even more interesting if the Catholic Church agrees on this position, which would be a serious blow for Bush and Blair, and might force Blair to withdraw from the "coalition of the willing", since his wife's Catholic.

 

1) It was weird that there weren't any quotes.

2) I am sure Bush is crushed since he has often expressed, in public, his great love of travel and particularly his desire to visit the Orthodox Nativity Church.

3) Suggesting the Catholic Church could excommunicate either Bush (who isn't Catholic) or Blair (who from what you state I gather isn't Catholic) seems a leap of massive proportions. I'm not much of a betting man, but I'll take whatever odds you'd like on that one.

 

Last time I read anything about the topic, it wasn't just a measly Cardinal or Bishop that could pull an excommunication.

It was Teh Pope.

Now, granted, I'm not sure how good his mind is anymore. Although, last time I heard, he was answering questions in 4 or 5 different languages, without an interpreter.

I didn't read the article, but that doesn't sound like the current Pope's style. Either way, at least it's not a fatwa. You can be excommunicated, and it does not become the duty of Catholics to hunt your monkey *** down and turn you into fish food.

 

To clarify, it is a priest from the Orthodox, not Catholic, Church who spoke. The excommunication then came from the Orthodox side. What would be interesting to note would be an excommunication, or at least an agreement to this position, by the Catholic Church.

And bishops and cardinals, with their office granted by the Pope, can excommunicate individuals, though Rome still has the final say on the matter.

 

I must not use the term "excommunicate" the same way as some others do. How the devil can you be "excommunicated" from a group (Catholic or Greek Orthodox, makes no difference) that you never belonged to in the first place? It would be like the Pope excommunicating me from the Catholic church -- how could he kick me OUT of an organization that I've never been IN?

Is this perhaps akin to the indulgences sold by the Catholics in the Middle ages, which (though I know it's an oversimplification) were basically forgivenesses sold in advance? So these excommunications are simply stating that if Bush or Blair ever do join this religious group, they'll be automatically kicked right back out again? This is hilarious!

[EDIT] I re-read the article (very poorly written, says Depaara the English teacher) and it seems that their initial action was to forbid the mentioned politicians from visiting that sacred site. As someone earlier mentioned, I'm sure that is really keeping old Shrub and the rest of them awake at night

[ April 17, 2003, 06:56: Message edited by: Depaara ]

 

Excommunication would mean either one of two things: either, in a restricted definition, one is taken off from the group he belongs to. In that sense, then, Bush and Blair can't be excommunicated when they are, in fact, from the start already, at least in essence, excommunicated for not being part of the Church. In a much broader sense, though, since both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are, even by agreement by more open-minded Christian denominations, two of the oldest Churches, from which practically all other denominations come from, then the excommunication done would be binding, and effective. I am not sure as to what the position of the Orthodox Church is, though I would think it closely follows the Catholic Church in saying that their authority actually extends to all Christians, regardless of religious affiliation. But that would go into theology already, and is not the scope of thie thread.

 

Sorry if I'm going beyond the scope of your thread, here, Milliardo, but I have to ask for clarification -- are you saying that the Catholic church could excommunicate someone from the Church of England, or the Lutheran Church, or the Methodist church? All three are Protestant congregations, and therefore come from the Catholic church in a sense, and I'm pretty sure that if the Pope said that one of their flock were excommunicated, those religions would say "who cares what he says?"

IIRC, Martin Luther was eventually excommunicated from the Catholic church. That obviously didn't matter to his followers!

 

Well, like I said, it would depend on how the word and action is interpreted. Since, by reason of their separation, Protestants are generally excommunicated, hence making a double excommunication would be nonsensical. In a larger sense, though, since the Catholic Church sees herself as the universal Church, then excommunicating Bush and Blair would make sense. The Church, in using that power to excommunicate, though, use the more restrictive sense of the word, which means that the action taken at present would only apply to practicing Catholics. I am not sure if this is the Orthodox stance. If the news report is accurate and true, then I would think that the Orthodox Church uses the much broader sense of the word and action.

 

The Catholic church excommunicating Blair having any sort of binding effect on the Church of England?

Well, firstly any protestant church of course already effectively denounced the Catholic church, the Vatican and the Pope, so to assert that they have any sort of power over those parts of the Christian faith is somewhat misguided.

However, specifically, Church of England is under the Monarch of the United Kingdom, split from the Catholic church by Henry VIII because he was not allowed to divorce his then wife Catherine of Aragon (he didn't behead them all you know).

So, no, excommunicating Blair would have no effect on his worship in the UK.

 

Something tells me that this action will have absolutely ne effect whatsoever on the Blair, Bush, or Straw family vacation plans. But if it makes the arch-cleric (sorry, I couldn't remember his official title) feel better for having done something, however symbolic, well then, by all means, excommunicate away!

 

First of all excommunication is a ritual not easily performed these days due to freedom of speech which even Churches have accepted.
Also here in Greece the news would be flooded with reports of this excommunication (just for the numbers in the view percentage) and this has not happened. And i'm thinking maybe this was just a personal reaction of the archimandrite or the metropolitan bishop of jerusalem just stated that these people are not welcomed in the Nativity Temple anymore.
If this is the truth then his statement counts because the administrator of the temple is the Orthodox church.
If he really meant excommunication all i can say is that can he find a way to have these people convinced to leave this earth asap and not to worry about their afer death life.