Christianity debate--from Scientology thread.

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Following Beren's hint, I'm starting the next thread.

Actually this is wrong. Isaiah 14: 12-15 gives such a reference.

This clearly states that Lucifer was cast down for excessive ambition.

 

And at what point in the timeline did this happen?

 

Actually, according to the commentary in my Bible, that passage isn't referring to Satan but to a figure of Canaanite mythology that is comparable to Icarus. Yes, the theme of excessive ambition earning a smackdown is still there, but it has nothing to do with Satan. The name "Lucifer" doesn't appear in the passage as I have it.

 

Xtianity, eh?

I don't feel like arguing tonight, but I have Wicca (pagan) ancestors and Xtians are our sworn enemies. Yes, I am neo-wicca. (Or, neo-pagan)

It was Xtianity who forcefully "converted" Wiccas to the Xtian faith.

What's more, those ******* Xtians even had the nerve to build a church on a Wicca holy site.

I have a bone to pick with Xtians, alright.

 

That's like Christians having a grudge against Italy because the Romans outlawed them, or The English having a grudge against Germany because they were invaded by the Saxons hundreds of years ago.

It's utterly pointless to have a chip on your choulder because of what a group of people did hindreds of years ago.

 

Didn't Gerald Gardner rip off Alistair Crowley and Celtic literature?

Besides it was the Druids that eventually spread Christianity through Ireland.

Back on topic - a Yazdânism take on 'Satan':

I find that to be a very interesting take on things

 

How come everyone has a different story? Who's right? What can I do to know for sure?

 

Kill yourself.

 

@Harbourboy:

They're all in the right, but none of them are right.
They're all in the wrong, but none of them are wrong.

You didn't see me, right? And I didn't write any of this.

 

I think this post is just hilarious, primarily because I have never heard a Christian talk about Wiccans or pagans (not that the two are necessarily related terms -- Wicca is a modern movement, isn't it?), and because the Wiccan I spoke to at the university I go to never said anything about Christianity.

I guess I could understand if your local minister ran over your dog or something, but what exactly have Christians done to you? Personally, I wouldn't get mad at someone trying to -- in his mind -- lead me to salvation and away from hell.

And of course, you have to consider the extent of paganism that has been worked into Christian tradition (Easter, Noel).

 

This happenned prior to the Creation of the world as described in Genesis 1.

First, I've heard that the name Lucifer means "the Light Bringer". He was among the best and the Brightest of the spirit children of God. The Bible I have does contain footnotes as well. By the name Lucifer, there is a footnote that implies that Lucifer's name translates as "morning star, son of dawn". The Ruler of teh Wicked world is spoken of as Lucifer, the ruler of all wickedness.

Secondly, if I remember rightly, the story of Icarus was that he tried to ascend too high and had the wax on his wings melt, causing him to plummet to his death. This doesn't sound too far from that of Lucifer, who tried to Usurp God's Glory and power but was cast down to Hell for his lust for power.

I remain quiet on them because I don't know squat about them.

I believe that Christianity has come under fire for some of it's techniques. I believe that Joseph Smith would have died a Heretic as judged by the Spanish Inquisition. I understand that the Crusades make us unpopular in the Islamic world as well. The way the Native peoples of Notrh America were treated by Christian missionaries is nothing short of deplorable. Even in areas struck by starvation and disaster, there are some groups giving Bibles to starving people before they get food. All these groups miss the point of Christianity--to voluntarily live a good life and avoid sin rather than being forced into a restrictive life. Virtue untested is innocence, not purity.

 

hmm, the 'Why Wiccans Suck' site seems to have been hijacked - but all of its content seems to be here: http://www.wiccaweb.com/suck_immaturity.php

 

From reading the scientology thread I really expected this thread to be named "Who is more badass, Satan or Lord Xenu?"

On topic though.
I would never hold a grudge against Christians even though I find many of the acts in Christianity name throughout history, for example those that Gnarfflinger pointed out, to be despicable.

The thing that annoys me with some Christians, (and many other religious people) however, is the fact that I cannot stand people trying to convert you to their cause, be it political or religious.

 

Satan vs Xenu? The war that will end all wars

 

Of course, living in the Western world in the 20th century, I have not faced Grand Inquisitors or the like -- so I have no reason based upon personal experience to, you know, directly complain about Christians.

 

I think the biggest confusion of these posts is equating Satan and Lucifer.

Lucifer is a fallen angel, this a one of many stories in gospels that never entered the Bible. Lucifer, Morning Star or Day Star was cast down for great ambition, some surviving texts allude that it was because of Jesus, most assert that it was before Noah's flood even.

Satan is the great antithesis to God. God is the creator, Satan is the destroyer. Satan reigns over evil, misdeed, and manipulation. God reigns over good, healing, and cooperation. When God created man, Satan came to fruition, to test God's children. Satan is the opposite side of the coin that God is on, they are equal, but seperate. Together but misappropriated. They are one, and the same.

Lucifer is as an ant before Satan or God. Lucifer is meaningless, but a pretty word that fire and brimstone evangelists attached to and tried to divert the faithfuls eyes from God almighty and Satan all-ending.

and I think Satan'd mop the pavement with Xenu.

 

Actually, Lucifer became known as Satan when he was cast out of Heaven.

 

Depending on your religion of course. Some Kurds don't believe that Lucifer is Satan. If you read older religious documents, 'satan' means 'to hate' eg "He has many satans'.

 

Such a statement is only true of dualistic religions such as Zoroastrianism where the evil spirit [Ahriman] is regarded as existing independently of the creator of good [Ormazd/Ahura-Mazdah], but Hebrew religion has always maintained that Satan was subordinate to God and as such he appears in Job [I forget the reference] as one of the sons of God, delegated to inform God about human frailties.

 

Follow the timeline, Gnarff. Isaiah happened way the heck later than than flood.