Classes You Don't Play Because of NPCs

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Are there classes that you have never played, because of the availability of NPCs in that class? It occured to me that I cannot recall ever making an Inquisitor, Stalker or Shapeshifter in any party. I also cannot recall ever creating a Berserker or Conjuror for an evil party.

I nearly always play in parties of 6. There's only a few reasons where I've gone through the game with fewer than 6, and that's usually because I plan on picking up Sarevok in ToB, so even then, it's 6 by the end of the game. As such, it seems pointless to have 2 characters with the exact same class in the party, and if I WANT to have a character of a certain class, but that class is available through the use of NPCs, I usually take the NPC and use my PC for something else. Does this happen to everyone, or are there people who, for example, make an Inquisitor, and than don't take along Keldorn (or stranger still, take Keldorn and have TWO Inquisitors).

 

Funnily enough, clerics. Branwen was great in BG and Anomen rocks in BG2. I've played MC clerics (F/C, R/C) but never a dual or single class. Considering it's the most popular class in both games - BG has 5 and BG2 has 3, not counting druids here - I can't find much reason to make my PC a straight cleric or a dual class.

 

Waa I loved playing clerics-dual-classed!

Seriously I heard a guy who was an Inquisitor and also dragged Keldorn with him on Boards of Magic. I guess mages were among the easiest encounters for him. Sorry JonBon.

You can never have enough clerics! The more, the better!

Here is the proof: Have fun!
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=77

 

Nope. There're classes I don't play because there's no reason to play them, but not playing one because there's an NPC of the same class? Any PC I make will be much better than any comparable NPC, so they just stay out (or get killed if I'm 'replacing' them ). Let's get a list going:

Aerie - Currently playing a Gnomish Illusionist/Cleric
Anomen - Played a F->C for my Jaheira Romance party
Cernd - I'd rather have a normal druid, TYVM.
Edwin - Don't really see a reason to have my PC as a single-classed wizard. Adding another class makes them SO much better.
Haer'Dalis - You could make a MUCH better blade if you were of a mind to.
Imoen - A T->M should have stealth skills for area spells out of nowhere.
Jaheira - Will play a F/D in my MEH party
Jan - Okay, I'll admit this one; I just love Jan. ... Just kidding! Jan can't cast Necro spells, which means no ADHW; a PC M/T (elven, perhaps) would be better.
Keldorn - Easy one: chev in my BoM party.
Korgan - Barbarians are better.
Mazzy - Elven fighters are better with bows (and a personal favorite, too).
Minsc - I always take Minsc, but that doesn't stop me from having a PC tank. Two boots are better than one!
Nalia - Cr*p on a crutch. Why the f*** would I take her over an insanely better PC (or Imoen or Jan, for that matter)?
Sarevok - Two tanks?
Valygar - He needs some seriously better stats to consider not making a stalker in favor of this non-personality.
Viconia - How can you resist at least trying out those Cleric kits?
Yoshimo - He dies. I'd rather have a thief that didn't.

 

Right on with the clerics - none of them have kits, so I wasn't really counting those - there's no reason if you're making a cleric to NOT pick a kit anyway. There's no penalties, and they all get two abilities. I also wasn't talking about multi or dual classes, as I assume everyone did that. I was talking about kits that have specific purposes. So I guess my list of NPC that I don't copy looks like this:

Keldorn - Inquisitor
Edwin - Conjuror
Korgan - Berserker
Valygar - Stalker
Cernd - Shapeshifter
Haer'Dalis - Blade
Yoshimo - Bounty Hunter

Of those, yes, there is some sense in making a Bounty Hunter because Yoshimo is definitely a temporary solution.

I will make no argument that for all of those NPC you can definitely make a better PC, but generally, that's not the point. I take around kits for the special abilities, and in the case of many NPCs for the special equipment they have. For example, Keldorn come loaded with a pretty darn good set of armor and a decent starting weapon. I also love his dispel magic and true sight, so it doesn't matter to me that he doesn't have exceptional strength and has a turtle's dexterity. I don't see a need to make an Inquisitor because the things I really need an Inquisitor to do (i.e., TS and DM, Keldorn can do just as good as a PC). On the other hand, someone like Minsc better bring something outside of the ordinary NPC to the party (in his case a huge strength and a berserk ability) because he does not have any kit specific abilities. Let's face it, Minsc's popularity is in large part due to his tremendous starting strength score. He has a funny personality, but if he had a 15S, 12D, 14C - how many people would take him every time?

 

Maybe not yours, but it's mine. I simply see no reason to needlessly handicap your starting choices due to NPCs when you can just make someone better.

That said, I base most of my PCs around party ideas; mostly my PCs just fill the gaps. If I'm taking someone there's no reason to needlessly duplicate their abilities, but noone is exclusive. Got a party idea that doesn't include Keldorn but you really want those abilities? Make an Inquisitor PC. Same applies to everyone else. If you want someone's abilities but don't have room for them, that's where the PC comes in; I'm not about to shove someone out of the group to fit in a favorite.

I would. And I'd fix him (using SK) back to what he was in BG1. (Anticipating the next question...) If he were the same in both, he wouldn't have made it to BG2 at all. The list of funny NPCs that didn't make it (as NPCs) is extensive. Tiax, Quayle, Xan, Xzar, Khalid, Alora, and probably a couple others I can't think of off the top of my head.

 

I think Inquisitor is the best example because there seems no point being one when there is Keldorn around. The next most obvious one for me is Fighter / Druid, because of Jaheira.

 

Cernd if your willing to play with him is another of these. No Shape Shifter Druid is going to get any better in a fight than he is. And he is hellish in a fight since he has better combat stats and AC than any of the melee NPC's when shape shifted. I need somebody to find out for me what shape shifter claws hit at without my little trick involving never unshifting after being turned drow. But really the only 2 reasons to make a PC over taking Cernd are as follows.

1. You don't want to waste your time going and getting him and would rather flesh your party out with others.

and

2. You want to have a Shape Shifter that has certain stats at a higher level for when they are NOT shape shifted to take advantage of the massive number of high level spells that Druids can launch off early on.


This is also considering that every Druid's biggest problem is that while they generally level fast. They spend like half of SoA not moving up a level because of the ammount it takes between 15 and 16. If you can get through it they do seem to make a significant increase however. I need to make more to see if it's really worth it though.

 

Enchanted at +2, 1d6 damage. The polymorph to greater should give you 21 STR, 20 DEX, and 25 CON. Regular werewolf would give you 19 STR, 16 DEX, and 15 CON.

 

None, really. I pretty much take whoever I feel like, I've long since given up building optimal/balanced parties and super duper munchkin PCs and all that jazz. Three clerics? Sure. Five fighters? Whatever, I'll pull through somehow.

I've played a couple of clerics and not taken kits, simply because I didn't want my guy worshipping any of those powers.

 

That's in greater werewolf form? Is there a mod that fixes that to at least +3 in greater werewolf form? Otherwise I'm never going to make a shape shifter for the Druid side. Though I do like to watch Cernd save Misnc's butt regularly in a tough fight.

I tend to balance parties towards my particular style of play though so I'm not losing much usually using Cernd as a fighter that's always shape shifted.

 

I believe Divine Remix overpowers them, yes.

 

I'm not really looking for over powered. I'm actually only looking for minor changes. if I wanted over powered I'd just ask how to make it so that they could cast spells while shape changed. That would make them an all in one druidic tank purely on their own core abilities. just having a say a +3 or +4 enchantment could be nice though if they can't cast their spells.

 

If that's all you want, you can get a modding tool and do it yourself in under a minute.

 

I'm not sure but I think the elemental shapes have that enchantment. Besides, being a Shapeshifter PC doesn't prevent you from turning into Slayershape . Although, I think I read somewhere (maybe on these boards) that the enchantment for Greater WW is +3 and the elemental shapes +4. Not entirely sure though.

 

Use the shapeshifter fix from refinements. It will make all that stuff useful.

 

This is true. Once you finally break through the 3 million XP barrier, the amount of XP required to level after that is only 150,000 per level. The 150,000 per level is actually considerably less than all other classes - thieves 220K, fighters 250K, paladins/rangers 300K, etc. Still even with that assistance, druids never "catch up" to the other classes in a typical game, because they are in such a huge hole. Not only did they have to earn 1.5 million XP to gain the level between 15 and 16, but they needed 750K XP to go from 14 to 15, which again is more than double what any other class requires.

 

I will never play a Conjurer. Edwin and his damned necklace just pwn every legal PC out there in the spellcasting department.
Keldorn makes Inquisitors redundant. Given all his failings, I still can never think of making a Inquisitor with him around.

There really is no other NPC that does the same.
Even Jaheira could do with a 18-18-18-11-18-dump stats.

I frequently change NPCs stats and weapon proficiancies since I find them so lacking.

 

oh they catch up. Considering when they get over that barrier they get like 6 extra 7th level spells as well as fill in any gaps and even somewhat surpass full clerics after they get past that one very long level. They also quickly catch up in level to any of the other classes. The slightly lower levels are really not significant. Specially when if you feel like being very viscious you can do a number of fire storms on a location and more than make up for any loss of damage do to level by shere number of them. They also reach level 14 well before any of the other characters if you put them in your party early on. So it's really only leveling from 15 to 16 that has a real affect on them.

On top of all of this once they get most of the way through SoA they get a Druid only staff from Rillifane that all but makes Armor obsolete for Druids with not only a permanent bark skin(Base AC of 3) but also an additional +3 to AC as well as a summon ability if you bother to use it. They really don't make out badly. Particularly with ToB installed.

I've been screwing around with Cernd Quite a bit lately to test him in thought of making a druid character in the near future myself to improve on certain things and quite honestly if my hero character Wasn't at god Level stats thanks to a strong fighter build (18's in Strength, Dex, and Con) The Tomes from BG1 which I played through, A trick to bypass the stat loss due to the dream, and the boots of speed trick in the one hell trial so I only lose XP as well as taking the Evil Paths in Fear and Wrath, The primary stat boost from the deck of Many Things, the boost from Lum's Machine, AND being a Wizard Slayer wielding an upgraded Unyielding Axe with about 80% magic resistance now, I do think that Cernd could stand a decent chance at kicking my main characters butt.

Certainly without some of the bonuses that put my PC's stats in the range of Cernd's own when in GW form my character would die to the off written little Druid one way or the other. Specially after I learned that any item that gives a +AC bonus actually enhances on top of the form shifted Natural AC which has my Cernd at about -18AC if not a little more without the need to wear any armor at all. And let's not forget that the little bastard Druid can wear the Amulet of Power which means immunity to level drain. He solo'd a fair number of vampires and tanked some others even with the leveling issue of 15 to 16. I'm to the point that I think I may have my monk in my next planned party rip Cernd's heart out as soon as he's able with a good Quivering Palm attack before he gets enough levels to be a threat.

By the way. Thanks to stupid charm spells and me not noticing. Cernd in shape shifted form combined with not having unshape changed him since he went into the underdark so that his weapons are in place of his claws. I've watched Cernd wipe the floor with a higher level Minsc like it was a light day at the office.

High Level Druids (Somewhere above 16) seem to gain bonuses to Elemental Resistances as well which stack on top of his Greater Werewolf Form means that Cernd takes consistantly less elemental spell damage than my Main PC which is sporting high Magic resistance. Add in an Item such as a Belt of Inertial Barier and he or any other of the kit sport a rather frighteningly impressive ammount of resistances.

For my current party he is actually sporting 80% in Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid, Magic Fire, and Magic Cold. He gained 100% resistance to poison somewhere between 16 and 18 I believe. He's got 40% magic, 25% missile, and 50% magic damage.

The only resistance items he's wearing are the Inertial Barrier Belt and Amulet of Power and he's currently Level 26. Rather comparable to the levels for the rest of the members of my party. I'm at Draconis and I've already smacked Sendai into the afterlife. All for a Character that I only took to see what he's like for a little Druid research and otherwise had never taken before in any of my games.

 

Sorry, I should have specified I was talking more about F/D multi-classes. Yes, with ToB installed, you'll earn way more than 3 million XP, and you will make up a lot of those levels through the course of ToB. I was thinking more along the lines of Jaheira, who really needs to earn 6 million XP to get to the 3 million XP barrier. While that is certainly possible, even with a party of 6, it generally doesn't happen until you're pretty far along in ToB, at which point she doesn't have enough time left to catch up.