Cloud Kill and Fog...

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If its the only way to survive why not use it? its not that easy to use, depends on the area ur fighthing in, gotta watch it, might damage ur own team.

Its not THAT easy to use and i don't wnat to hear no braggers replying it is.

I don't use it myself, but i used it once against those trols in D'arnise Keep and it worked great.

Magic is Magic, and if its powerful. use it.

The Kurgan

 

Right! Wizards are supposed to fight with their brains and magic, thieves with stealth.
So using those tactics (cloud spells, traps) is not cheap from a wizard's or thief's viewpoint. Many a time in paper and pencil D&D, the wizard or thief would tell my fighter to wait during dangerous situations, while they try some sneaky tactic or spell, before I go charging in. If it didn't work, I'd be ready to fight.

 

Great views, I also think the spell 'Cloud Kill' would become extinct if Monster's in BG2 truly had a better AI built into them. Instead of 'standing around in a fog that's killing them' they would 'move' out of the cloud. Wow, takes a lot of brains to do that I suppose. I mean when someone casts Cloudkill or Death Fog at your party do you leave them there to die?

Many have used the Cloud Kill method to defeat 'powerful' creatures (such as Dragons). I believe they used this spell perhaps because they dont 'challenge' themselves to win in any other way, or haven't developed 'tactics' that work in battles. There may be other reasons but 'most' true role-playing gamers out there frown upon the 'cloud kill' tactic. If it can be called a tactic.

However, the point is valid... 'It is a spell in BG2...' Use as you wish. I haven't used it to kill any Dragon that I've defeated but I sure tried to use it on a room full of Mind Flayers my first time thru BG2. Of course they're immune to it due to magic resistance! Which of course forced me to develop a 'tactic' that worked at the time.

 

I like trying different ways to fight enemies. I'll make a couple of saves, whack something, and go back and do something else.
I've mentioned elsewhere killing dragons with Quivering Palm, I also like to go toe to toe with them, try both the cheap and the hard ways. Cast a cloud spell one time, then go back and fight with no magic another!
Both ways are fun, and that's what this is all about, having fun.

 

It is a flaw in the monsters AI that they don't move out of the area affected by the spells and i think the game would be better if this was improved. But the powerful magics are there to be used, or as some see it misused. It's up to the player of the game how they use it, but personaly i like the challenge. So far i haven't bothered using fireballs or cloudkills as there's so many other more useful spells of those levels to use for my style of play. As for the dragons...well there's nothing more satisfying to me than knowing your character just drove his sword point into it for the killing blow.

 

Actually monsters do move out of the way when you cast a cloudkill on them in BG2. The Shadow Dragon does not because it can't notice you if you have the wardstone. Try this on the Red Dragon and the thing will come charging towards you.

 

draco: cloud kill would still be useful to weed out weak enemies and wound powerful ones before hand to hand. and i actually have my paladin stand in the middle of cloud kills and hack away at enemies while everyone else attacks from range cause her hp is high, she has 65% magic resistance and regenerates. they do need to improve the ai so they not only can move out of clouds but humunoid creatures will open doors. i've shut monsters in a room full of deadly fogs or meteor/fire storms before when i was too lazy to fight straight up.

shura: not if you do it 'right' don't aim the cloud kill at the dragon just make sure part of the dragon's lil circle is in the cloud and he'll sit and take it.

[This message has been edited by Palpatine (edited November 06, 2000).]

 

I see your points Palpatine, I also had Viconia (65% magic resist) wearing the Human Flesh armor (20% magic resist) and the 10% magic resist amulet and left her in the middle of - fire storms, ice storms, death fog's and the like. BUT my other party members would MOVE out of the area of effect. A simple, basic, minor intellectual move that should be built into AI.

As for doors, whether humanoid or not -if death is upon them and the only escape is through a door... That door is 'history'. A creature without hands can still 'Bash', 'Bore thru' or do something to open that door.

And yes I understand the 'ability' to defeat monsters and the 'desire' to defeat them. Sometimes all of us 'dont want to deal with 20 kobolds' therefore... CLOUDKILL! Your 15th level party (or more accurately YOU) no doubt has the 'ability' but not the present 'desire' to tediously do so.

When I posted my 'Cloudkill' attempt above it was after I surfaced from the UNDERDARK my first time thru BG2 -and was 'shell shocked' still by all the Beholder/Flayer mayhem and carnage. I was rechecking all the Vendors items and stumbled into the sewers(temple district) in the Athkatla and found I could 'open' the door that lead to 'MIND FLAYERS AGAIN episode 2'. I tried cloudkill to no avail and had to use tactic's that worked!

 

Those pesky Illithids are probably the most annoying creatures in the game. And their high magic resistance is plain irritating. Not much defence against a 6 hasted, chaotic commanded bloodthirsty adventurers letting off stress from the day with melee weapons though BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Bloody flayers kill with one hit, disregarding any armor you have

 

no it takes two hits, one to drain intelligence and a second to kill

though buffy the undead slayer doesn't let that bother her

 

potion of invunrability.... adds +5 to saving throws... this helps when fighting flayers

 

Chaotic commands, the ultimate defence against the illithids, and a couple of +3 longswords are my favourite offence. Rush 'em with that, they're practicaly dead already. As long as your AC is good too ofcourse.

 

Ah yes.....when the flesh is but a husk, it was the steel that had been stronger.

The steel leaves its mark upon flesh, but flesh does not mark steel!

It is through the Scripture of Steel that you shall gain the "knowing" of yourself and freedom from the "illithid".

 

When going against cloudkill & co. you should also consider chaotic command, sleep, hold persons/animals ... all multiple character attack spells, which can have the same effect: leaving the enemy helpless.
Whether you hack away at sleeping enemies or watch them die from afar is not so much different.
Also ranged attacks at dumb monsters that just wait for their death, or picking out single monsters from a group by ranged attack isn't much better.
Killing a dragon with one (admittedly good) punch may be more glamorous but it isn't any more real than those area spells.

 

You know what could fix the cloud spell cheapness? If encounters were truly random, where you never know when the monsters will strike, rather than having them wait under the black areas. Then there could be the chance of being ambushed by them, too.

 

Whoooahh -hooohoo, Well...! I simply HAD to respond to Sorl's post. Just 'have to'!.

Umm, there IS a difference in BG2 between an 'area attack' spell that allows you to RUN, HIDE, and STAY SAFE from a distance... and an 'upfront and personal' toe-to-toe battle. Dragons/Liches/Flayers are definitely the most dangerous encounters in the game (there are others). But they can kill, imprison or destroy with ONE attack. And if that happens to your 'main' character you'll find yourself staring at the dying "Upstreched hand" of your character with the screen option to 'load or cancel'. Is the BG2 game cheating because a Lich can 'Power Word Kill', 'Imprison', or 'Disintegrate' your main character and kill with one attack? How about the Dragon who can kill several of your party members with one attack?

I'm not 'entirely sure..' if your statement in your post about 'one punch' was directed to my (and many others) Monk fighting and killing Dragons but again there is a BIG difference and you aren't giving proper credit to the dynamics of the battle or class abilities. In my case it was my MAIN character who put his abilities vs. one of the most dangerous encounters found in the game... a Dragon. He did it alone -without backup... face to face...in proximity to receive the most 'deadly' attacks from that Dragon. It wasn't hiding...running...staying safe from a distance. In some of the later fights with Dragons(or other creatures), my Monk had to 'fight it out' due to a 'save' by the Dragon from his 'quivering palm' attack. Nothing 'cheap' about it in any way. It was ONE on ONE -to the end. Delivering and receiving damage. HOWEVER, I must state... that if you want to play a 'god-like' character in BG2 without cheating, there is only one in the game that I've found. A MONK. Granted at lower levels, it's a struggle. But after one learns how to play them, equip them and they reach 15th level or so its a 'coast ride' from there. There is just too many details to explain, perhaps you'll play one if you haven't'.

Now about your 'range' weapon comment. I disagree with it, history was changed when England introduced... the Long Bow -effectively- to the battlefield. They could devastate ranks of foot soldiers without suffering a loss. It was a wise and brilliant military battle tactic. Down to this day (WWI, WWII to ummm the Persian Gulf War if you don't recall), AIR superiority is a proven, effective battle tactic that is devastating. It MUST be respected and has it's place in any battle.

 

Right, Draco! My Monk has had to duke it out with dragons when it saves vs. spells (quivering palm), rather than reload. It's fun that way!