Coming of Age

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One of the many ways IWD differs from the BG series is relative character power. In BG1, you are limited to rather low level characters. In BG2, you start with an already powerful character, and by the end of BG2 (even without ToB) you have an extremely powerful character.

IWD goes through a progression where you start with level 1 characters, but are quite powerful indeed by the end of the game (even without HoW). And there is a definite transition point for when your party changes from newbie low level tactics to powerful tactics.

The only arguement is to when this transition occurs. Now, a lot of this has to do with the number of characters in your party, and the difficulty setting you're playing on, but when do you feel your characters "come of age" so to speak? I'm leaning towards the Severed Hand for when you start getting truly powerful characters, but the biggest difference in terms of actual level is probably the progression that you get in Dragon's Eye. First with the Lizard King, and later with the Serpent Queen (whose name I will not even attempt to spell) are the first authentic, tough enemies you take down. And the difference in levels from when you enter Dragon's Eye to when you leave it is probably the biggest of any one area of the game.

 

I'd probably say the Dragon's Eye. It seems like that's a big turning point in the game for me.

Fighting Yxonumei (sp?) really gives you a sense of not being "regular adventurers" anymore.

 

I didn't feel such a transition. My party got stronger but so did the enemies. The party was always just strong enough to succeed.

I felt a transition when I soloed HoF with spellcasters (when the cleric go animate dead or the druid animal summoning I) but not with my regular party since I relied more on physical combat than on damage spells.

 

If you've got a Bard, the line is easy to draw: when your Bard gets to level 11. It doesn't matter when or where it happens, this is when your entire strategy changes.

If you put this aside, I have to agree with Dragon's Eye. I mean, the lizardmen on the first level are a joke compared to how tough Yxunomei is (I do believe she's the hardest fight in the game, relative to what level your party is at the time). I wouldn't say there's a definite transition point, since Dragon's Eye is huge, but this is definitely the dungeon where you go in as noobs and come out as established adventurers.

 

Dragon's Eye. The party changes from novices to at least journeymen. Sure the enemies get harder but by now you and your party should have a feel for what to prepare for and different tactics.

I agree.

 

I think that my party members are really powerfull after Severed hand, because there you can get Elven chain, Cloudkill and Stoneskin scrolls. Of course, if you solo, your character is epic after Dragons eye.

Yxonumei is easy as goblin pie if you use right tactic. Lone fighter can do this. Hasted and with arrows +2 using bow +1. But thats of topic.

 

I do not equate 'coming of age' and epic. To me coming-of-age would be when you cease be a stumbling, bumbling novice and behave as a seasoned adventurer should. Epic is well past that stage. You are now, well, you are Epic. No more power word 'Reload' needed.

 

Sorry to continue with rant, but how would a lone fighter be able to cast haste on himself?

 

Just drink potion of speed.
I soloed with halfling fighter and have done that. First he shot a lot of arrows in Yxonumeis naked breasts, she get all spells disrupted, after Yxonumei was dead, cut all yuanties in pieces, because he had good AC and yuanties missed a lot. Maybe drank few healing potions, but can not remember.

 

The fight is even easier.
After my solo halfling F/T had beaten Yxonumei and her friends in HoF mode I realized that she had forgotten to drink the haste and the strength potion. She didn't have to drink healing potions either.

 

I couldn't really tag put a certain point in the game as a turn-about from weak to strong, since i had a pretty balanced party for most of the game.
I don't know about the rest of you, but turn undead can really, really make life a lot easier when you first get to kuldahar.

if anything, i'd have to say that kuldahar is a turning point, because the quests start to feel more "serious". ( i mean, come on, getting some fish bones back from some two-bit monsters and solving some sirenes love problems are just tongue-in-cheek quests.)

i'll give a breakdown of the difficulty of the chapters i guess.

prologue - if you find this tough with whatever kind of party, you shouldn't be playing IWD, right ?
Ch. 1 - As i said, turn undead makes this so much easier. combined with my paladin and fighter to tank the yetis, no problem.
Ch. 2 - I find that turn undead is still viable here, lucky i have both a cleric and a paladin, as well as a thief with a bow and arrows of dispelling to take care of that pesky necromancer. with a bit of luck you can get your thief to get behind the wall again and hide in the shadows so you can backstab multiple zombies.
The rest of this chapter is not extremely hard if you have some good powerhouse tankers and make your spellcasters memorize the right buff spells.
Ch. 3 - Turn undead becomes less usefull here, but still usable, so don't write it off completely! Also, if you can, have one of your back-line characters use Sseth's bow. insane shooting speed, combine with some high damage arrows makes life somewhat easier. I don't like this chapter because of the much running around.
Ch. 4 - you should have picked up some good missile weapon for your cleric, like a sling. i prefer to have my rogue scout ahead, getting him in a good position to fire his arrows, have my fighter and paladin tanking, my cleric using his sling and healing where neccesary, and my mage firing his ranged spells, switching to a sling if he runs out f them. I advice you invest in buff/ranged spells with your mage, keep the miscelaneous skills out of his spellbook.
Ch. 5 - Same tactics, you might want to keep a wand that does fire damge ready here for the ice trolls. if done right, you Can avoid most monsters in the palace, if you take them on i can only advice you to save often.
Ch 6 - Again, save often, and if your cleric is up to it ( depending on his stats) you might want to put him in as a tank some of the time too, so he will be closer to the ones taking the beating, so he can heal them faster. the rest of this chapter is just the use of the right items and spells, both for buffing and attacking.


Some more tips :

Don't be afraid to use your wands, keep the wand of heavens handy for trolls though.

Area effects are your friend. if you have to, save before you enter a area with large collections of monsters, and keep using effects like entangle and grease. learn how to utilize them for the maximum effect.

You can have a bard in the place of a mage, but not in place of the rogue. you lose out on spells though, and the song isn't really worth it.

 

Wrong. If you're playing on Insane, the ogre in the cave IS tough

I'll have to disagree with you on Bard vs Mage, as I find the Bard songs to be generally far more useful than the high level spells in IWD. Most of these are nerfed, or are very hard to use properly (Horrid Wilting is fantastic, but it's just too easy to kill half your party with it)

 

It might just be prejudice on my part, because i've never seen much use for a bard throughout the IE games.

IWD is playable with a bard, but i don't get the feeling that the song is such a great addition, like i do get from other class-specific skills like turn undead for clerics/pally's.

It's advicable to play with a bard once though, if only it were so you could experience the feel of one, and you'll finally have a use for those bard-specific items

 

Bards are great. They level up faster, can use cool items, and special songs are very very useful! Try them!

 

Without TotLM, Bards stink. With that add-on, they're incredible.

 

I disagree. I think Bards are very useful long before I even set foot in either of the expansions. I've said it before and I'll say it again: used properly, a bard can be a far more useful character that a mage. Some of the songs are really powerful, you still get a decent amount of mage spells, and you can usually fill in the gaps of what you can't cast with wands. A bard will not replace a mage, but with a bard you can get by with having a multi-classed mage. Between the two of them, you get all the spells you'll really need.

 

I believe Klorox may be talking about the extra songs that HoW (not TotLM or any of the areas) provides, though I could be wrong if maybe he's talking about some special items or something. Without the other five songs, some people may say that bards stink, but I disagree. A bard can be an invaluable tool if used properly, even with only one song, especially in PnP where your options are more open. As with any class, if you don't use everything they have, it won't be as effective.

 

Oopps, yeah I meant HoW.

 

Bards rock! My current 3-player party is Bard, Halfling F-T, and Dwarf F-C, and they're doing okay so far. (Dragon's Eye.) The Dwarf tanks, the Halfling backstabs and shoots arrows, and the Bard fills in as needed: casting spells, archery, melee, or singing.

[ May 08, 2006, 05:53: Message edited by: Cernak ]

 

I just realized this during my reply in the "Druid and Bard" thread: My characters truly "came of age" when my Bard hit level 11.

The Cleric and Druid in my party erased most Cure spells, and replaced them with offensive alternatives or buffs. The whole party gets a lot more powerful in combat, both offensively and defensively with that song!