Completed MotB - Thoughts

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I finished the game late last night. My thoughts are in the spoiler section as I don't want to ruin the game for player who have yet to play it

Spoiler

Here are things I liked
1) Epic level game
2) New city/location vs. NW
3) New NPC
4) Interaction with NPC, MotB is better but that should be expected considering the difference between BG1 and BG2 and other great sequels
5) Romance in the game and at the end how you can confess your love
6) Being able to pick between Oku and One and the May
7) Spirt meter; at first I didn't understand but after learning how surpressed worked it became easy to control.
8) Being able to pick up Ammon Jerro as a NPC for shor time

What I didn't like
1) How MotB ties into the OC, includes the use of the Sword of Gith to enter the city of the dead, capturing the PC after defeating the Shadow Lord, Ammon Jerro being captured (he is already an old timer from the other game and shouldn't been so easy to capture especially after what he has been through, etc. It just doesn't add up; it should of started off as a whole new game.
2) Craft system; I never liked any crafting system in any game. I believe the magical items should be found, not crafted.
3) The game was a bit short; the game seemed like it was rushed and there should have been more to it.
4) The Dove and her attacking you after deciding not to finish the Crusade; I mean after talking to her commrades it only made sense not to finish the crusade

I may have to play through both OC and MotB taking the alternative paths and One of Many, etc...

This game has a lot more for me to explore but by completing I can now mark it as a game I have completed.

What happens if you decide to finish the Crusade? What happens if you take on the One and Many, etc.... Just curious if there is anything different between having Okku and the One and Many.

 

As we are talking about the game post completion I think about anything said is arguably a spoiler for someone who hasn't gone through most of it.

In case someone hasn't and doesn't want to know some of the ways it turns out then don't read the rest of what I type.

The ending depends on what type of relationships you have with party members, who you bring with you (Okku vs One of Many), and if you choose to join attacking the wall or not.

If you help Kaelyn in attacking the wall Kelemvor lets you fight "the Betrayer" and the protagonist goes back home if you choose not to keep the "Spirit Eater" aspect of yourself.

Different things happen depending on if you have a romantic relationship with the Red Wizard lady or the half-hag. If you do, then you marry one of them back home and some of the people from the OC are there too.

Note: If you do this ending with One of Many then One of Many eventually eats your significant other (at least if you are with the wizard lady) and you then hunt One of Many down.

If you don't have a romantic relationship with either of them but helped Kaelyn then each of them go to faerun but are better people in some way. The half-hag guy talks of love & friendship while the Red Wizard lady runs the school she was at before but does so promoting trustworthiness (unusual for the stereotypical Red Wizard).

If Okku was in your party rather than One of Many then he fends off a Red Wizard attack on his homeland (I think this is the case no matter if you stay on Kaelyn's side or not so long as you don't embrace your "spirit eater" aspect by "devouring soul"). If you helped Kelemvor's side and don't stay the "spirit eater" Okku says he will make sure the "spirits" where he is from know of you/your story.

If Kaelyn is in your party and you got into a fight with and defeated Rammaq others join and then leave her banner but she becomes a source of hope for those in the wall. If you did NOT get into a fight with and defeat Rammaq he betrays Kaelyn, goes power-hungry, and summons demons to drag her siblings off-she then returns home silent and emotionally broken. (Which is why those interested in "good" endings for most of the party members should take out Rammaq.)

If you betray Kaelyn and are romantically involved with the Red Wizard Lady or the half-hag guy they stay with you guarding the city Kelemvor runs. If you aren't romantically involved with either than they go to faerun but aren't better people (the Red Wizard takes over her school but runs it like a ruthless Red Wizard and becomes something of a bad guy herself).

If you embrace your "spirit eater" aspect you end up being a terror that kills people (a village visited in the game, possibly Kaelyn if she is around, and so on), gets into a fight with some unnamed "gods of order" in the story and wanders off through the planes. If One of Many travels with you then you let him eat someone instead of doing so yourself on occasion. Obviously this is viewed as the "evil" ending.


Anyone sees something missing or inaccurate with what I said should feel free to mention it.

 

I just finished the game and I agree with MB in regards to my likes and dislikes. Although I think I may have disliked the whole spirit energy thing more then you.

 

things are very different with one of many, for one thing, you can get access to two different classes with him. He can be a Rogue (when the Child is the one) or a barbarian (when the Brute is the one).

You can't sadly truly succed or even try to do the third crusade, even if you start it (which I think at least good guys should) you will at the end be forced to stop and deal with your curse instead.

I agree with almost all you liked and disliked, except about the Dove, she lives for the crusade, so when you turn her down, it makes sense that she attacks.

 

Mixed feelings. The spirit meter was terrible, just terrible. Got a cheat to disable it and got on whit the good story and gameplay. The endfight whit the betrayer was bad. I had to reset the difficulty to get it over whit whit my wizard. The rest of the game was as it should be.

In general I like D&D games in the early and middle stages were your character is not yet a demigod and fights whit realistic enemies.

 

One of Many can switch to a Warlock too, if you let him devour the spirit of a certain person.

 

So I have heard, but I am not that far yet with my evil run, as MoW takes all my gaming time

 

The endings I had did the following....

1) Gann, Syfia and Kaylen in the party...
Syfia and I got married and travel the Realm and became great heroes - Influence 100
Gann stayed by my character side and traveled the Realm with the PC and Syfia - Influence 100
Kaylen attacked the party and died

2) Gann, Syfia and Okku
Syfia and I got married and travel the Realm and became great heroes - Influence 100
Gann stayed by my character side and traveled the Realm with the PC and Syfia - Influence 100
Okku - stayed by my character side during his travels - Influence 100

There was no mention of my character and Red Wizard attacking, etc...
All NPC with a 100 influence stayed by the PC side and became better individuals.

I have yet to play this game towards the evil side.

As for Good/Evil and attacking the walll vs. not attacking the wall...

I find attacking the wall to be more evil than good; don't forget, the point of the wall is to punish the faithless and if you attack the wall you are going against the rules of the Gods, evil and chaotic.

 

Actually the storyline said that Myrkui (who is lawful Evil) made the wall. This is noteworthy because it can be said he made it out of his cruelty/evil. Also (and we just talked about this in a different thread) the planes in the D&D storyline existed just fine prior to the existence of the wall. So it is arguably an unnecessary evil.

If you choose to side with Kelemvor that is ok, it was just debatable if he is right in keeping it around. Note he doesn't seem to intend to be evil himself and neither does Kaelyn.

Yes K attacked your party if you chose to defend the wall but you have a choice as to if you kill her or not. Did your epilogue said she attacked your party again or did you just kill her after fighting her in the game?

One other thing that surprised me was that you seem to have defended the wall and left. I thought that you stayed after defeating the last boss (if you protected the wall) and became a major helper of Kelemvor's.

 

don't forget that a lot of good people are locked in the wall to be tormented until their very soul is destroyed and the only "crime" they committed was not worshipping a God....
(I think this was left out of the 4E since it very clearly alludes to how non-believers go to hell, no matter what kind of life they have lived according to many religions).

 

Is it technically said "god" rather than "God" if we are going to go into a discussion of religion. I was raised with the understanding that if you believed in multiple gods then you used a lower case g and if you were monotheistic then you used an upper case.

Grammer aside. I think it may be a good thing for 4th to leave it out (maybe it was shattered via spellplaque somehow?) You are right that the storyline says many people who harmed no one are sent to the wall-I think that is a big reason Kaelyn wants to destroy it.

 

During my game her grandfather appeared after the battle and took her away. I received some points towards Good for this action.

Myrkul rule is simple; you don't worship you go to the wall; it may seem evil, but it is more neutral as it applies to all.

I believe there was another thread discussing this subject.

One thing I would like to point out...Why does destroying the wall of the faithless count as an act of good?

For me, some one who follows the good path will review the situation and see that if they destroy the wall than those who commit evil acts will not be punished for not following a god. This will allow their soul to roam the city of the dead, etc... A good aligned character would not attack the wall for the greater good of the realm even if it means good people going to the wall.

An Neutral or Evil character would because of their inner believe (Kaylen's view on the wall of the faithless) or to protect themself.

 

The debate is if the wall serves a greater good or not. It doesn't punish evil people for their evil actions. But it does punish good, neutral, and evil people to the same level.

If you feel there is a greater good at stake (the possible destruction of faerun in the storyline) it is possible to defend the wall as a good aligned protagonist.

However if you feel a greater good really isn't being served then a good aligned protagonist would be quite troubled by something that "punished" good people just as much as it did evil. Concerns about if this is justice arise-which could readily trouble good protagonists.

One issue with most of the D&D storyline/background is that most days clerics of some sort are casting spells, summoning creatures, and so on. This is direct evidence for the existence of gods within most D&D storylines (provided someone doesn't try to argue clerics are just crafty mages).


Back to game endings..... did it say Kaelyn attacked your party at all after her father took her or if he does is that the last you saw of her in that particular game (no epilogue relating to her)?

 

What is just to one individual might be unjust to another; therefore guidance in this matter should be lead not by the individual but by the gods. With that said, destroying the wall will destroy the power of the gods and that would be an evil act, especially if the character worships a god, good or evil.

 

The gods in the storyline of faerun were able to get by without the wall in the past, they probably can again.

I think the gods portrayed in Realms D&D are more likely to be thoughtful and more true to a give task/mentality than the gods of the ancient Greek pantheon from thousands of years ago but each has (especially the Greek) moments of utter pettiness which are as low as any human. Take what Tyr does to Helm for one example.

So just letting gods decide isn't always a good idea. And as some of them likely disagree on what is good or bad I doubt you'll find a unity of thought there that is that much above what humans can argue. As they are gods in the D&D storyline they are better informed of things than most people in faerun and can grasp issues mortals would likely ignore-but that doesn't make them united in moral understandings.