Darfur

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Does anybody pays attention to what happens in Darfur? (to summarize, Arab militias supported by the Sudanese government are in the middle of an ethnic-cleansing campaign against the black African people native to the region. It can be easily called genocide, and it has the potential to be as bad as what happened in Rwanda ten years ago).

This has been going on for some time (at least two years). I find it quite disgusting that the UN did not step in yet. Now I am reading that US delegation (togheter with Russia, China and Algeria) is blocking the report of the top United Nations envoy for the prevention of genocide on this subject. Apparently the US delegation (led by Bolton) is afraid that this will provide legitimacy for the International Criminal Court.
WP article

 

Let's face the truth, UN and USA have no economical reason to go there. I hardly ever see any news from there, no one of polish politician speaks about it. People mourn about 1000 killed by hurricane but no one sees the genocide and famine in Darfur. People suffer here and there but the world does nothing to end this war.

 

The mass rapings are disgusting there, along with other atrocities. Its ****ed up that the US invaded Iraq (killing tons of civillians, while brutality is a way of life for the Sudanese. As Undertaker states "there are no economical reasons" to help Darfur - the Janjaweed are free to do as they wish.

 

And is that the reason the others are blocking it as well?

 

Money. It's all about the money.

 

AMaster: well, I think Russia and China as a matter of principle don't want to countenance the intervention of an international body in the internal affairs of a state. (after all, they are not really famous for treating their own people nicely). And about Algeria... they are not exactly recognized for their human-rights record, either.

As about the issue of money: I think that's part of it. There are no obvious reasons (either financial, or political) for US to get involved in that region. On the other hand, pure human decency would require that at least they put as much pressure on the Sudanese government as possible to stop this; and supporting the UN investigation seems like a no brainer.

 

The U.N. should mobilize the armed forces of its African members and put a stop to this.

 

Still it's better then sitting and doing nothing.

 

Tal: it is not the only place in Africa where troops from an umbrella organization (either the UN, or some coalition of African state) would have intervened to stop a war. It is true that it costs money (and interventions in other places are in part justified by the hope of the participating states to get a part of the loot). But this should not rule it out.

Actually, this is an argument for the existence of an International Criminal Court. The hope being that fear of being prosecuted would stop politicians in places like Sudan of engaging in such acts.

 

And what is their objective. I have to admit to not being fully informed about this. I know what is going on, but I don't understand the "why". Typically for people to keep killing their own countrymen over a period of years, there has to be a pretty significant reason for it.

 

I think in such cases of ethnical cleansing it is not very likely that the involved parties would consider themselves as "their own countrymen". And I do not know if this ethnical cleansing t reaches a Ruandan/Burundian dimensions. Yet, I expect it's all about the money, the land, the water, the cattle, the power, the career. If there is an intervention, I hope does not end Somalia like, that is, no ending at all. But I think it will be more like Ruanda/Burundi. Ignore it and over with it.

A succesfull intervention would cost a lot of money. A lot more than anyone would be willing to spend. And if it's spend, wouldn't it be better to spend it on Nigera, to undue Shell damage?

 

@Iago,

Funny, you mentioned all sorts of possibilites, except for the one most likely. It is all about the religion.

@Tal

I'm assuming you were being tongue in cheek when you were concerned about the cost of protecting the victims.

I would love to see Europe or Africa take action, instead of standing on the sidelines.

 

And president Bush used an argument (besides WoMD) to release Iraq people from tyranny. But when it comes to Darfur he is silent.

 

So let me get this straight. If we go to war for our own reasons that is bad, if we go to war for other reasons that is good. That makes sense.

And for the record, I believe we are currently at war for more than just our reasons. I hope (and believe) that history will show that our toppling Afghanistan and Iraq will be good for the world.

I believe it is time for the rest of the world to stop complaining and do something. You know the old "If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem". I am of Jewish descent and have a particular distaste for ethnic cleansing/genocide. I thought after WWII many people said "Never again". It is starting to look like it is more "I'm not paying for it, and I'm not going to risk my ass for you." I'm sorry, but Europe and Africa have sadly disappointed me. The U.S. is already busy, it is time for someone else to step up to the plate. I don't expect much from Africa as it appears there may not be one stable government on the continent, but Europe has the armies and has the cash. They could do it, but they appear to not want to. The U.S. can't solve every problem you know.

 

Darfar was a problem before Iraq, but the US still wanted to go for the easy and more rewarding (for themselves) option. Besides if Iraq really was about W.M.D., then N.Korea would be top of the list...

 

We (the US) get slammed for cleaning up the mess we made, in Iraq. And then we get slammed for not cleaning up the mess Europe made, in Africa. Fascinating.

I am painting with a broad brush when I say Europe. The people who need to step up are the ones that made the mess in Africa in the first place. I guess that's the French, English, Dutch, and Italians. I may be missing some, or including some incorrectly. My knowledge of the colonization of Africa is not what it use to be.

The same people that complain about the US acting like World Cop in the case of Iraq (a country where people were being brutalized, and in the case of the Kurds, wiped out) think we should be acting like World Cop in Africa. This is why I rarely post in the Alleys any more.