Defensive spells and their countermeasures

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OK, here's the case: some mage, his casts fire shiel(red and blue), minor return (I don't know how is the english version, I got spanish )the thing is, how you kill his defences? I tried everythin, really, but nothing seems to work.
Another case, I got the Tactics mod, so when you get close to a mage you see: mage casts: spell secuencer and the other ones of the kind, just to see that they can put about 6 or 7 spells in their trigers! how you do that? I couldn't never put more than 3.
But the main question is: what you use to kill those fire shields? they seem to be inmune even to brech, which, it says, can dispels fire shield and a lot of other defensive spells.
I just remember, some liches get invisible, ok, you do ALL true sight kind of spells but nothing happens, always you get the "you can't cast upon invisible target" ¿? I tried everything, really.
Well, that's all, for now, I'm just putting together some other question of this kind, I just have to find out how to put it in english.
Thank you for any answer.

 

i will post some spells that might work...though it might wont help you:

true sight
purge invisibility
dispel magick
inquisitors dispel magick
breach
pierce magick
hitting mage with:
staff of the magi
carsomyr
purifier

 

IIRC, Dispel and/or Remove Magic should take down a fireshield, and Spellstrike takes down any protection.

True Sight takes down any illusion.

I've never had much use for Secret Word, but that's just me. I guess it's like a watered down version of Spellstrike, IIRC.

Hope that helps - anyone, feel free to correct me if I hath just spake from mine ass.

 

Step 1: If you can't see him or only see his fire shield etc, cast true sight, sometimes purge invisibility is enough, but not always.

Step 2: Spellstrike if you have, Breach - to peel his protections

Step 3: Dispel magic just in case - if you have a spare one

Step 4: Lower his resistance (lower resistance spell, multiple casts)

Step 5: Feeblemind - now you can cast whatever pleases you on your chosen victim.

Step 6: Menial job

 

Purge invisibility won't affect mislead. True sight will and it dispells in multiple rounds

Khelben's warding whip takes down even spell trap (and every single spell protection) and it's only level 7.

dispell magic will take invisibility down, but you have to know the overal location of the creature

breach (level 5) dispells all combat protections (stoneskins, mantles, fireshields, weapon and elemental protections)

 

IIRC If you cat Peirce Magic, it will lower the target's MR.

 

I'm not as experienced a spellcaster as many here.

I am more comfortable with thieves. I find that find traps (& illusions) is very helpful against invisibility, mislead, and mirror image, amongst others.

Then I usually have Solaufein (fighter/mage)hammer away with the staff of the archmagi in Greater Whirlwind mode, which quickly dispels any remaining protective spells.

 

Pierce Magic will remove one spell protection and lower MR 1%/caster level.

Pierce Shield removes one spell protection and lowers MR 15% + 1%/caster level.

Secret Word is kind of like a "watered-down" spellstrike in that it will remove one protection up to 8th level. Very useful for low-level casters.

IIRC, Spell Thrust removes spell protections up to 4th level.

Glitterdust will reveal invisible characters too and it prevents them from becoming invisible for the duration of the spell since the dust sticks to them.

If you have a druid, summon insects, insect plague and creeping doom disrupt/prevent spell casting. If you manage to get the spell off before an enemy goes invisible, it will continue to affect them once invisible. Just make sure that you cast the spell at someone other than the mage, otherwise you run the risk of becoming the target of your own spell. The insect spells will also help take down stoneskins.

 

All of you are right, I read every spell specification, you know, I've played the game thousands times. The thing is, after the Tactics mod (which is great) many spells don't seem to work anymore the way they used to be. When I faced some mage, it was the same routine: spell thrust, secret word and brech and then you could just punch the mage. Now, they can do a lot of thing (in a better way) but sometimes it seems that the rules don't apply to them.
Anyway, thank you guys, I know now that I can count on you next time I have a doubt.

 

In many cases, there is no practical way to improve an AI beyond a certain point. No matter how you stack it, a human will usally be able to "out-think" computer opponent tactically and strategically. So what the programmers do - they cheat. They put more spells in triggers than they're allowed, they give innate abilities, higher than actual levels, whatever. The point is they don't follow the same rules that you do. You're trying to figure out what these AI mages are doing within using the rules that you have to follow. The square peg still doesn't go into the round hole.

 

Hey Subra! That's the thing I was especting to hear about! I was kind of think of that, just wanted the confirmation, did you see Body's fire shield? she dies and the shield is stil there, you can't remove with anything!
That was my idea in the question, I just didn't know if there was the posibility of cheating.
Now, I gues that I have to play knowing that I have to be MORE careful and most of all knowing that they have to cheat me to beat me!

 

Actually, the NPC mages in the tactics mod don't cheat (I've read the scripts.) What they do is cast spell immunity:abjuration and spell immunity:divination on themselves. This makes them immune to dispelling magics and true sight.

The Liches in tactics are totally immune to level 5 spells and below (although they don't use the spell immunities.) What this means...breach won't work. Use spellstrike.

 

Cheat, don't cheat, whatever...they operate under different rules than the you do so you can't base your tactics on what you are able to do yourself.

 

Spell Immunity: Divination renders one immune to True Sight? I cannot believe I never tried that -- I hate going around invisibly and having it dispelled -- I'm gonna try this tonight!

 

Isn't that spellstrike only remove spell turning etc, not stoneskin, fireshield, protection from magical weapons etc ???
As far as I know, there are three types of defensive spells
no.1 is illusion type, typically mirror image and mislead, You use true sight etc to dispell it.
no.2 is stoneskin, fireshield, protection from magical weapons type. If you want to do PHYSICAL damage, then you HAVE TO to remove this type, the spell to use is breach. Since a lich is immune to level 5 and below, you can't do anything if a lich cast these.
no.3 is spell turning, mantle, globe of invulerability type. These are pretty useless. You remove it using piece magic, warding whip, ruby ray etc. Personally I never bothered it, The only time I felt the need to remove this type is when Ironicus cast spell trap.
Is all this correct? So the conclusion is breach and true sight are the best, but you can't use it on a lich. Spellstrike etc are useless.

[ June 18, 2003, 02:22: Message edited by: 14 ]

 

Spellstrike removes types two and three from your list.

 

And it removes all of them unlike warding whip which removes one at a time. Still I consider spell strike to be a waste of a 9th level slot. Use breach and wait till ure cleric is level 20 before taking on liches.

 

No it doesn't. Cast stoneskin on yourself and let another person cast spellstrike and see what happens. It doesn't remove stoneskin etc.

 

Or you could just use a wizard-slayer as it is the best kit due to its +10% culmulative(sp?) spell failure per hit. Haste him with greater whirlwind attack, give him the Answerer as it removes 15% and 2 AC per hit and see you make mages and dragons be KIA.

 

But wizard slayer is horrible in so many other ways its scary.

And yes spell strike definetly removes stone skin, Im not positive about spell protections, but stone skin and either anti fighting buffs it definetly removes.