Dream in Spellhold (spoilers)

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So, apparently the Imoen in your dreams is your soul. Personally, I would've chosen someone else, but that's besides the point. What I'm curious about is what your soul/Imoen says when Irenicus sucks out your soul - she says something along the lines of "No, not again! Arrrgh!" What does she mean by that? I don't recall my character's soul being sucked out anytime before.

 

Not successfully, no. But I would imagine he'd been trying during the time you were his prisoner. After all, that was his entire reason for capturing you. You just got lucky that you had a chance to escape before he finally managed it.

 

Luck has nothing to do with it. It was his plan all along to let you escape.

 

I highly doubt it was his plan to allow Bhaalspawn to escape. Before KABOOMSLAYER happened, Bodhi was just about to carry out the order to "remove this nothing."
Of course, Bodhi told that should PC be fast enough, he could escape, but that was prowen to be just a hoax.

 

That's a different escape, but there's still reason to believe that he didn't plan the first one either. Everything he says and does in Chapter 1 indicates that he didn't want it to happen. That he planned your showing up at Spellhold doesn't mean he planned the entire thing. He's a smart villain, and can work with interruptions in his plans, making new plans that draw you inexorably back to him.

 

According to Yoshimo's journal from Unfinished Business, Irenicus planned to let the PC "escape" as a part of a "test of abilities" thing, but the attack of the Shadow Thieves pushed up the time-table.

Of course, I don't know if this can be considered "canon", story-wise, but it seems those folks are pretty concientious about following the original game designers plans, so I'm inclined to believe it.

 

If I had planned to let somebody escape i wouldn't say "So you have escaped god-child, you are more resourceful that I had thought" and "I won't let you leave not when I am so close to unlocking you power".

It just don't makes sense, if you want t drain somebodys soul why let them escape and then lure them to another area to continue your evil plan? Another thing that indicates that hi dind't want you to escape is that he "walked away" from your cage unwillingly, he did it to deal with the shadow thives.

As far as my ability for making conclusions, go he took Imoen to lure you to spellhold, or to whatever place they endede up in as they were likely to be brought to the same place.

edit: added another quote

[ September 03, 2006, 14:21: Message edited by: Stardust ]

 

Oh, I see. I pointed out the wrong escape. But still, even the escape in the beginning wasn't what Irenicus was wanting.
He was, if I'm not completely mistaken, about to succeed (perhaps even with the next "experiment"), when the golem comes to inform that they're under (heavy?) attack. And as such, Irenicus sets off to get rid of the vermin, and after that he would have come back and continued.
But alas, his plan goes awry! Imoen gets free during one of the battles, and frees PC as well, before Irenicus can seize the situation. And so, the mighty wizard still destroying his opponents, they escape under the quise of chaos.

Oh, and Gregor: I wouldn't trust unofficial mods too much, no matter how much they're on the intention of following original ideas. If the developers of the mod have neither been developing the game or received some secret, concept information, it cannot be considered to be to be absolutely in canon. Or it might be, but it isn't certain.

 

That's the thing, Goli...the UB guys HAVE been getting their info from original Bioware designers. Everything in Unfiinished Business is stuff that was originally intended to be part of the game, but was cut due to time - or other - constraints.

Of course, HOW those ideas are implemented is obviously going to differ a bit from the way they would have been if they'd been included in the game in the first place, simply because different people are working on them. I'm not saying that it was DEFINITELY intended that Yoshimo's diary reveal Irenicus' plan to let the PC escape, just that I believe that it could be.

You can't go by what Irenicus says...he's a nasty, lying, former elf. It could easily be part of his newly improvised plan - a plan that was rushed due to the Shadow Thief attack - to let the PC believe he had no intention of allowing him to escape. In fact, I find it quite likely, especially since Yoshimo is a PLANT in the PC's group. If Jonny didn't want to let the PC go, why does Yoshimo infiltrate the group...INSIDE the dungeon, not outside it?

 

Perhaps Yoshimo was ordered to stand guard at the second level when the attack occured as a form of back-up plan in case of an unforseen difficulty. Instead of trying to stop the Bhaalspawn, he was ordered to infiltrate to act as a spy until a further plan could be brought into motion.

While it may seem unlikely, Jon is incredibly intelligent and it seems unlikely that someone of his intellect would have no contingency plan.

 

Indeed, he could just have been there, and seeing a force he could never handle by himself coming trough, he just flashed up these quick words, and solified his act after that every given moment. Seeing he seems quite sly, I wouldn't count that out completely.

Or he could have done it not only to protect his life, but to also lead PC to Irenicus. That is actually more likely.
Then, later on, he decided that it was better to keep silent than to blow his cover while Irenicus and The Cowled were blasting each other to atoms and see to it afterwards. And then, when Irenicus is taken as a prisoner, he decided to play on with his act.
Althought it could have really been both, act to keep his hide safe AND to run with PC during the first escape, to see how he performed in Irenicus' "test".

Of course, it could have all been just Irenicus' plan at the beginning. But anyways, this is getting mighty complicated.
Conspiracy or no conspiracy at all!?

 

Well Irenicus gets Yoshimo to agree to a gaes, so there really is no way he could defy doing what Irenicus wants him to do. Given that you meet Yoshimo in Irenicus' dungeon, it certainly implies that perhaps Irenicus planned for you to escape.

However, even someone of Irenicus' intellect could not possibly account for all of the potential variables that could take place upon your escape. Since the ultimate plan is to restore his soul, allowing you to escape places too much doubt regarding the final outcome. To list just a few possibilities:

Once you had escaped there would be no guarantee that he would be able to capture you again, and no guarantee that you'd still be alive if and when he caught up to you. The whole "test your potential" thing seems like crap to me, because you are of no use to him if you're dead. Furthermore, I do not think that even Irenicus, as intelligent as he is, would KNOW definitively that he and Imoen would wind up in Spellhold together, nor would he necessarily KNOW that you would have the ability to get there in an attempt to rescue Imoen. You may never find out that Imoen was sent to Spellhold, or you could potentially not be able to raise enough money to get there, or you could d

[ September 06, 2006, 19:30: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]