England Football Fans - Unfair Reputation?

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Am I alone in thinking that us English boys get a bit of a rough ride when it comes to our football hooliganism stigma? We seem to get severely bollocked and loads of attention whenever there is the slightest trouble in the English leagues or England internationals. In my opinion there are nations with worse fans.
Take a look at the state of Italian football right now. Flares thrown by the crowd hitting players and causing burns and bruising? Hooded fans throwing seats, bottles, anything else they can get their hands on at Liverpool fans? What will be done? I hope something major.
Spanish fans, probably the most racist around right now. If that monkey chanting happened by England fans, FIFA or UEFA or whoever would play bloody hell.
Then there's that Turkish lot who always manage to make you feel about as welcome as a fart in a space suit and cause trouble everywhere they go.

I'm not saying England fans are saints, because we have been in our fair share of trouble. But, worldwide, England fans are thought of as being by far the worst and I don't think that's true.

What's tha reckon youths?

 

Well, you have the reputation and once you get the reputation, it's very difficult to get rid of it. I think that what basically makes people annoyed with English fans is the fact that, while you don't cause troubles in your country (you have to thank Thatcher for this), you behave like raging bulls in other countries (just remember France '98, Belgium '00 etc.) and this makes other people think "They don't dare to move a finger in their home, and they behave like barbarians in ours." Although, I have to admit that the vast majority of english hooligan acts are happening due to extreme consuming of alcohol before the game, while in other countries (like mine) hooligans are organized armies and they don't need alcohol or drugs in order to create troubles.

As far as Juventus vs Liverpool is concerned, you should expect that things like these were going to happen, because this has been their first game since 1985 and 39 deads can not be forgotten easily.

BTW, Inter's punishment was a joke. Other teams have been banned from UEFA cups for a year or more for much less important things and Inter just got 4 games without audience and fine.

 

There is more trouble in England and there are pre-arranged casual fights. Much more than abroad. But, we are not racist or anything like that. Some of the chants by some of the Italian and Spanish fans in recent games have made me want to throw.

 

When I'm talking about organized armies, I don't mean pre-arranged fights, I can say that these could be even considered honorable in comparison with what is happening here. Ambuses with stones, flares and molotov bombs, "commando" attacks against other teams fan clubs, hooligans driving motorcycles and searching for opponent fans, stabbings and other similar gentle activities, actually it's a miracle that just one fan has been killed and this had happened 15 years ago.

As for the racist chants, we have them here as well but they are more a way to piss off the player than an expression of real racist feelings and I assume that is what is happening in other countries (fascists like the *******s of Lazio are excluded from this assumption). I remember Panathinaikos' fans screaming "Ku Klux Klan" to Eddie Johnson while the same fans where screaming "Come on Dominique" every time Dominique Wilkins got the ball (they are basketball players, I don't think that you know them). Also, I remember the fans of my club, Olympiakos, screaming "ough, ough" when Manuel Olisadebe touched the ball and in the same game singing "Thanks Christian" to Christian Carembeau.

 

Well, clearly the majority of English soccer fans are just normal people who love the game and don't do anything violent.

But there is a very visible minority who give all the rest a really bad rep. It's a bit like how all the negative aspects of America get in the news and the Americans complain that they get more than their fair share of criticism. It's the same with the English soccer hooligans. Their antics get a lot of news attention and that is what everyone sees, like interviews with louts who admit they are looking for a fight.

Plus, as an English speaking country, we just get more news about England than other countries.

But, regardless of whether English soccer violence is the worst or not, it is still pretty terrible and something (I don't know what) should be done about it.

Also - why does this only seem to be bad in soccer? You never hear of the Barmy Army going on violent rampages despite the awesome passion with which they support the rugby and cricket teams.

 

Football hooligans are only a small minority of fans. It's kind of sad that everyone becomes guilty by association. That Inter/AC Milan thing was pretty dire.

 

What is it about soccer that seems to attract more psychotic lamers than any other sport...? Soccer isn't a violent game ... are the fans making up for that or something?

 

I tend to agree with the top of BOC's post. Once you've got the rep, it's hard to shake it. Hell, I've never even been to England but I've got it in mind to steer clear of soccer fans. It's the stereotype I guess. Like Vinnie Jones' character in Euro Trip. Also, iirc wasn't there a movie released within the last 2 years ABOUT soccer hooligans in England?

 

England brings along a couple of hundred knuckleheads who can't seem to forget about WW2 every game. These particular dumbasses chant stuff like how the rest of Europe should thank them for not talking German right now, and that they would rather be a Paki than a Turk. Everyone who ever visited a footballstadium should know how the lyrics go, so i won't waste any more words on this.

Is this a typical "England" problem ? Hell no, besides the group i just mentioned, the lot of the English are the "real" fans. They are always there, through thick and thin, they never fall silent in the stadium, they are the 12th player for their team. I prefer an Englishman next to me in the stadium over all nationalities, and that includes my fellow countrymen.

Yes, the English are a little rough, but who in the world of football isn't ?

Edit: and stop calling it soccer you barbarians.

 

Football doesn't attract more psychotic lamers than any other sport, don't make the mistake to think that football hooligans are psychopaths, the vast majority of them are normal people with a normal life outside football. If you want to find the roots of football hooliganism, you have to look back when the majority of football clubs were created. Unlikely to what is happening to other sports, football clubs were created to represent groups of people with conflicting ideologies, aims and ways of life and therefore the conflicts of those groups are continued through football. Real Madrid vs Barcelona (fascists vs communists), Celtic vs Rangers (catholics vs protestants), Olympiakos vs Panathinaikos (harbour workers vs aristocracy) and so on. If you take this to national level, modern national teams have replaced the national or tribal armies of the previous centuries. To make it more simple, since I can't break Barmy's head in the battlefield anymore, I will break it in the football studium.

 

The thing is that football, especially on the international scene, is the most passionate sport on this planet bar none. For some, like me, it's one of the most important things in their lifes. That might sound sad to some people, but I think you need to have been brought up around football from a young age in a passionate footballing country to fully understand it. Occasionally, that passion boils over. Football hooligans aren't just mindless idiots with the brains of a gibbon who just look to smash stuff up. Most of them are respectable citizens with steady jobs, a wife and children etc. If you haven't I strongly recommend that you watch the film, Football Factory, you will see what I mean and might actually gain a better understand of these guys.

My point in this thread was that England fans get some real rough treatment, when we've done sod all wrong. Unless you've seen in first hand, it's hard to understand. For example, in Portugal last year, the Portuguese police were throwing random people in jail, who they thought might cause trouble, smashing random bald-headed and tattooed men with battons because they thought they looked like hooligans. I mean, come on, that's bang out of order and is only going to cause more trouble. Especially when there are fans a hell of a lot worse, who seem to get away with things.

 

Barmy, I don't think it is relevant whether or not soccer is the 'most passionate sport on the PLANET'.

If a Leeds fan is deciding whether or not to smash up a Galatasaray fan, what does it matter to him whether there are millions of soccer fans in South America or China? All that matters is what goes on in the head of the idiot who makes a personal decision to do something nasty to someone else and use a sport as an excuse.

A Welshman will get pretty bloody passionate about his rugby team but you never hear of riots in Cardiff after a test match. A New Yorker might be unbelievably passionate about baseball but who ever heard of hooligans at a Yankees game?

I also don't care how law abiding or church going they are when they are not at a soccer game. If they go around smashing in people's heads at or around the stadium, then they are dangerous idiots and should be locked up.

 

agreed. I guess that's why they call em "Soccer Hooligans". They only turn into hooligans during soccer games?

We call it soccer coz it IS soccer

 

Off-topic but agreed. The full name of the sport is Association Football, of which "soccer" is a more useful abbreviation, on an international message board, than "football" (which, rightly or wrongly, is Rugby Union Football to a New Zealander, Gridiron or American Football to an American, and Australian Rules Football to someone from Melbourne, Australia)

 

It is not soccer, never has been soccer and never will be soccer. End of dicussion. Use your silly terms amongst yourselves if you like, but don't use it in the presence of an Englishman/Dutchman/Greek, or anyone else intelligent enough to use the proper name. 'Soccer' is insulting. I'm glad we've cleared that one up .

Have you ever actually travelled away with the English football side, Harbs?

 

Barmy, I assume you mean: have I ever watched the English soccer team play outside of England (given that they'd never actually let me travel WITH them). To which my answer would be: no, I have not, and have no plans to, given that I do not support that particular team.

Have you ever travelled away with the New Zealand side?

 

New Zealand have a footy side?

Seeing as you have never been anywhere with the English national side, I can only assume your knowledge of this doesn't go very deep.

But anyway, I partially agree, violence is not necessary and I have never and will never be a hooligan. I do, however, understand them sometimes. A lot of them are just venting a spleen. There are pre-arranged fights ,away from built up areas and the police here have learned to just leave them with it.

England 'fans' can be out of hand but as a rule of thumb, you don't see them shooting and stabbing the other fans or throwing everything but the kitchen sink onto pitches. I.e. Italians, Spanish, Turkish.

Apart from a few truly deranged individuals the major problem is that in modern (British) society there are not enough outlets for the natural aggression found in 18-24 year old men. Testosterone (and beer) fuelled bravado. These young men can easily get caught up in the whole scene, the need to jostle, spar and prove against your peers. No different that the Saturday night pub car park brawls, except on a larger scale.

Football is ideal for this behaviour. Not the game itself, but the tribal, combatative traditions that surround the following of a team.

It is not an "English" disease, that is a total myth. We are bad, but there are worse.

 

point taken Barmy. a SOCCER hooligan is a SOCCER hooligan no matter what country he's in or from